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Hi guys we all have those players at game clubs that min/max every list/army they play and sometimes it really isn't fun to play against. I have a friend who plays Champions of fenris and his list is very difficult to beat, he uses Bjorn and murder fangs in Drop pods with a mix of Cavalry/flyers and occasionally wolf spam. The Problem most/I have is how fast theyre in your face, Turn 1 Drop pod assault, Cavalry that charge turn two regardless of experience, It's gotten to a point where I am considering buying a new army just to try and beat this list. Anyone else faced this supplement? Anybody discovered units that excel against this supplement? Suggested armies?

Thanks in advance

What army do you & the others play?

all depends on your amry.

I also play similar lists a lot and TWC in particular are a nightmare when run with SS. As guard I've worked out a few good tactics but in general you need S10 large blasts. BA vindicators are awsome, IG demonlishers, manticores, wraithknights.... just don't let them close that 24" gape with demolisher weapons.

generally speaking gun lines perform well vs this type of army. as Ig i often stun my SW rivals by rolling for night fighting in order to get better cover saves vs melta pods, after all i can make some of my weapons ignore cover so its win win to me. I've also seen TH SS terminators do well and necron wraiths with wip coils are rather nasty.

I'm an elder player currently, yet to pick up a wraith knight yet so that may be my next move, I normally find he's in my face before I can do any amounts of decent shooting, then when I build melee heavy to counter it he still destroys me with his murderfang etc, Im tempted with the wraith knight. Iv also considered a new army, But i'm getting to the point now were I really want to win

Flyers > assault
An avatar would suit you nice, you can get a cheap one from ebay, look up khaine statue
Wraithknights for sure
Wraitguard in serpents insta kill his big stuff
A bunker might do you some good

You actually have one of the strongest army/faction in the game, don't need to buy another, just get the models you need or figure how best to deal with it from a tactical point of view.

what is your list?

Why is he getting an assault on Turn 1?

If he pods in those Dreads they don't get to assault, do they?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: Yikes! I just realized how Drop-Pods work. I have only played GK's as Imperials go, so I haven't had access to them till now...

So, Open-Topped, trumps Deep-Strike Reserves, for allowing Assaults?

Edit #2: Never-mind, I was right... you can't Assault out of any Deep-Striking situation, period (outside of BA formations, etc...) So yeah, if your opponent was trying you up in Assaults turn 1, they were cheating, period.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Why is he getting an assault on Turn 1?

I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to the Drop Pod rule "Drop Pod Assault", where some of them can arrive on turn 1.

I would definitely suggest against switching armies. Eldar have been one of the strongest armies (probably THE strongest) for 1-2 years. A Wraithknight should do nicely against Murderfang and Thunderwolf Calvary. The Avatar of Khaine is another good option.

Remember to use your mobility. You should always have 2 turns of shooting before they make it to combat.

You can also try allying in cheaper screening units or just use Guardians (or Storm Guardians with melta). Surround an important unit of yours with a 90 point squad and force him to waste a turn killing them instead.

First off I wouldn't called using bjorn and murderfangs in any list to be min/maxing lol, there are plenty of worse things out there.

Secondly, murderfangs? Murderfang is unique, therefore your friend should only be able to field the one.

I've played against a similar Drop Pod/TWC spam list and what I found to be enormously helpful were Wraith Guard, Fire Dragons, and Heavy Weapons Support Batteries with D-Cannons with a Farseer for Guide/Prescience. Keep the Wraith Guard and Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents to weather the Drop Pod Dreadnaught arrival. Then on your first turn, get out and use your Str 10/Melta shots to shoot them. Even if you don't kill them outright, you'll at least Stun/Shake/Immobilize/Destroy a weapon on them, limiting their effectiveness next turn. For the TWC, each D-Cannon hit would double them out and because of how barrage works, one SS in the front can't tank the shots as the wounds originate from the center of the blast template. Volume of Str 6 fire also works well to whittle them down, so War Walkers or Warp Spiders are also useful in helping you finish them off.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
First off I wouldn't called using bjorn and murderfangs in any list to be min/maxing lol, there are plenty of worse things out there.

Yea, both arent super game breakingly good by any means. Hell my murderfang gets shot up or the dice gods shame me out of a charge about as many times as he gets to wreck face in cc.

Murderfang is a bit of a joke, if he's doing that much damage then I suggest looking at how you're approaching the situation. Eldar, outside of the big scary stuff, shouldn't be tangling with him in CC. MF has a glass jaw but if he does ever make it to combat, he's going to be wrecking things. Shoot him with whatever the Eldar equivalent for melta is and just keep avoiding him. Try to get some terrain between you and him so his charge range is just that much farther to go.

As for the TWC, they're scary but they're very limited on shooting, their true strength is played into their HoW assaulting and then tearing you apart with the automatic rending bonus they get. Play Tau-style against them. Move away and blast them with everything you can, rinse and repeat. Even SS are going to fail sooner or later. Try tar pitting them with a weak, expendable unit. Let the TWC hit them, wipe them out in his turn and then you have your entire turn to fire everything at them while he sits out in the open.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
Even SS are going to fail sooner or later. Try tar pitting them with a weak, expendable unit. Let the TWC hit them, wipe them out in his turn and then you have your entire turn to fire everything at them while he sits out in the open.

This is good stuff, something puny that will get ripped through guaranteed, just make sure ot move what you can farther away first

Sounds like the SW player has a decently balanced army with a diverce and fast build.
Perhaps a bastion could do you some good. Put some D-cannon platforms up in a bastion. If the dreads drop in or wolves run up they will beat at the walls while you desintegrate them.
You could even have a squad of firedragon hidden inside the bastion; if the dreads drop in, you walk out in your turn and fry them.
Another sweet trick is D-schytes! If you have aproblem with wolves coming to close, the D-scytes provide a devastating wall of death if they charge you, and if they dont charge, they are even worse of.

For the love of god, keep your Wraithknights away from TWC, they destroyed me last time I was feelin' froggy against them.

When I played against something similar to champs of Fenris, what I did was shoot/assault his Dreadnoughts with my 2 Wraithknights, and shoot down everything else with Guardians and Wave Serpents, with Fire Dragons moving in quick to get to the armor at the back.