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Hello there!

I went to my local GW today, looking for this:

They told me that it didn't exist any more, and we checked: it's dissapeared from the french GW website, and the store owner says it won't be coming back :(

Does anyone know any affordable alternatives that are good for Citadel models and stuff?
Stuff that won't cost 1000€ of postage, and that won't destroy all the details on the model.
I've never used an airbrush before, and I was hoping to learn with this one.

Thanks!

That is probably one of the worst airbrushes ever produced. You would be much better served with an inexpensive real airbrush like this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0067BAYNO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=OW9GGE5289LE&coliid=I2J0XNH8J55MZL

Be happy that they don't sell that junk anymore. You lucked out there.

My advice, watch this before you buy:
[Youtube] http://youtu.be/tsW-vN0_lHw[/youtube]

Any airbrush site should sell a spraygun even hardware sites like harbor freight. Can't speak on france but I think TCP Global ships worldwide. But those guns suck a cheap airbrush is overall cheaper since you don't have to keep buying air and doesn't have dimishing returns as the air runs out.

 Theduke07 wrote:
Any airbrush site should sell a spraygun even hardware sites like harbor freight. Can't speak on france but I think TCP Global ships worldwide. But those guns suck a cheap airbrush is overall cheaper since you don't have to keep buying air and doesn't have dimishing returns as the air runs out.

What's the difference between a spraygun and an airbrush? I always thought that they were the same thing...

Basically, a spraygun is an on/off device. You spray paint, or you don't. Like a spraycan.
An airbrush allows to control the air flow and the amount of paint that comes out. Both of them indepedently. Wich gives you a really fine control.


However, if you only want a simple tool to apply basecoats, varnish and so and don't need a precision tool, you can check stores like Lidl/Aldi/etc. that sometimes sell cheap airbrushes with compressor for maybe 50 euros.
You won't paint all day long with this, but it would replace the spraygun perfectyl with some advantages (no need of air cans for instance).

Last week Lidl sold one, maybe check if they still have some.

If you want the best, everything you need is right here: http://www.harder-airbrush.eu/

 Minus wrote:
Basically, a spraygun is an on/off device. You spray paint, or you don't. Like a spraycan.
An airbrush allows to control the air flow and the amount of paint that comes out. Both of them indepedently. Wich gives you a really fine control.

Actually I don't think that's true. You have single action "airbrushes" as well. I think the difference between "airbrush" and "spray gun" is simply that the "spray gun" is designed to coat a large area with an even coat of paint where as an airbrush is designed for finer control, so a spray gun has a wider fan, usually has a larger paint cup and are typically trigger operated like a gun as that's a more comfortable position when trying to cover a large area.

But yeah, a cheap airbrush will probably serve you better than the GW spray gun... but I never used the GW spray gun so I don't really know (was it maybe easier to clean than your typical airbrush?).

The only thing that airbrush was good for was splattering paint very irregularly across models (which was great for weathering, but nothing else).

I am pretty sure Badger has a couple distributors in France. You might want to look around, I can vouch for the brand.

It's just a fairly basic syphon feed (jar on bottom) airbrush with a fancy looking handle/pistol grip.

About the only useful thing it had was the pre-marked levels for mixing of GW branded paints (which is now irrelevant because of paint changes).

Get a badger cheapy that does the same job and apart from the pistol grip, serves the same function. Will cost less, too.

I use my syphon feed for terrain painting.
For detail work, I have a gravity feed (cup on top) as it just works better for that.

(Yeah, it used pre-canned propellant to run it, but with a bit of work (an adaptor) you can fit it to a compressor - since it did use a standard fitting.)

The biggest difference is that the spray gun uses compressed air (from a can). There is a badger product that s almost identical, except the airbrush is a regular penstyle tool, not boltgun shaped like a wannabe Grex.

Everyone else is right though: the citadel product is junk. Get a real airbrush.

I actually had an alright experience with the Citadel spray gun, but you could get much better for the $30USD or so that it cost at the time.

Talys wrote:
The biggest difference is that the spray gun uses compressed air (from a can).

And that is why miniature hobbyists should not be allowed to set terms...

Source of air is irrelevant. I can buy an adapter and spray paint through anyone of my high dollar airbrushes, that doesn't turn them into a spray gun.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Minus wrote:
Basically, a spraygun is an on/off device. You spray paint, or you don't. Like a spraycan.
An airbrush allows to control the air flow and the amount of paint that comes out. Both of them indepedently. Wich gives you a really fine control.

Actually I don't think that's true. You have single action "airbrushes" as well. I think the difference between "airbrush" and "spray gun" is simply that the "spray gun" is designed to coat a large area with an even coat of paint where as an airbrush is designed for finer control, so a spray gun has a wider fan, usually has a larger paint cup and are typically trigger operated like a gun as that's a more comfortable position when trying to cover a large area.

Pretty much this.

Spray guns (for the rest of the world) refer to larger paint sprayers (generally). Things like my DeVilbiss:



or my Turbinaire:



There is a little bit of crossover with the smaller detail spray guns and larger trigger grip airbrushes like the Asturo Mini HVLP, Iwata LPH 80, Grex TS3... Some of the larger airbrushes are larger than the smaller spray guns.

The on/off issue, as it may be, is a question of single action versus double action. Do you have the ability to control both paint and air flow with the trigger or does the trigger only work to stop/start (on/off isn't really accurate, there is a range of control with the single action brushes as well - though somewhat less than double action). Now, conventional wisdom (especially around here) is that double action is superior to single action... However, I would have to say, based on the majority of question and comments from those looking to buy airbrushes - a single action would better suit their needs. If you plan on [roughly] applying the same amount of a coating over a surface - it is easier to get repeatable results with a single action brush. This means primer, base and varnish coats. In fact, there are a lot of people who buy double action brushes and convert them to single action brushes by removing the air valve (granted - a bit different than a conventional single action brush as the trigger than will control the paint flow as opposed to the air flow...). Double actions brushes are more useful for applying gradients and fades (which, while some do it...it is the exception to the rule).

Unfortunately, it is something that is complicated by two additional actions. One, the continuous air flow brush, actually sprays air all the time. Not a good choice for a canned air painter - but it has an advantage over regular single action brushes in that it ensures smooth paint flow when you pull the trigger. Occasionally, there can be a bit of sputter with a single action brush as the air flow gets up to speed to create the venture for spraying the paint. This slower moving air can move the paint - but not fast enough to fully atomize it. That is why when using a regular single action brush, you should start your spray off your subject and end off the subject...sort of like you do with an aerosol can (part of what leads to the above confusion).

The 4th type of airbrush action is progressive double action brushes. These are normally trigger grip brushes like the Grex and Iwata TS. The trigger first will open the air valve, then as you continue to pull back - the needle retracts to allow paint flow. Pulling back further controls both air and paint at the same time.

The GW airbrush as it was, was overpriced a good bit. Poorly designed, and prone to manufacturing defects. Technically, it would have been a single action, siphon feed, external mix airbrush - something like a Badger 350 or Paasche H.

When it comes down to a breakdown of the various pros and cons of the different specifications - you can mix and match them to your needs.

 evilsunzacademy wrote:
If you want the best, everything you need is right here: http://www.harder-airbrush.eu/

Except the rest of it. I like H&S - but they only sell scalpels. Sometimes, you need a hatchet...sometimes you need an ax. Ever try to cut down a tree with a scalpel? Pretty sure you could...wouldn't recommend it...there are better tools for the job.

In the same way, H&S do sell some nice airbrushes - but I wouldn't call them the best. If you wanted to prime some Cities of Death (or whatever those things are called) boards - an H&S brush could get them done. Not as fast as the right tool could though. With an bottom feeder, single action brush like the Paasche H or Badger 350 - you could prime an entire tables worth and have lunch by the time you were half done using any of the H&S brushes. Could get it done even faster with a proper spray gun.

To the OP - if you are in an area with enough people to have a local GW - you probably have a local art store (or crafty store, or model store...). Pop into one of those and have a look to see what brushes they have in stock. Many will actually let you try them in the store before you buy them (sometimes with paint...normally with just water). I would recommend starting with a simple brush. Don't skimp on it - but in order to get used to things and not break the bank, a good quality external mix or general purpose internal mix - I would lean towards single action...maybe an Iwata M. It will be a workhorse brush that will handle 90% of your needs.

After you get comfortable, get a rig set up, decide you want to do more - take a look at a double action, internal mix detail brush. By that time, you should have enough brush time to know what you like and don't like about the one you started out with and can make an informed decision on what to get next. You should be able to get a good quality starter brush and compressor for about the same as a detail brush...which helps avoid the pain in the wallet. That same compressor can then be used as well if you decide you want a detail brush.

BTW - if you really like the design of the GW brush, see if you can track down an Iwata Neo TR2. It is a side feed, progressive double action, internal mix, pistol grip brush. It is Iwata - but the Chinese made Iwatas. Iwata ensures they do better QC than your knock off brushes. Side feed allows you to use both Gravity cups and siphon bottles. Not sure on what the price is on them. I was sent one to evaluate a few months ago...they aren't available in the US market yet that I know of (think they are on sale in Europe though...pretty sure you can get them in Australia as well). Neos are Iwata's entry level line of brushes - so they tend to be a bit cheaper than their other brushes.

Personally, I wanted a brush to seed the painting of large vehicles (Maulerfiends, Valkyries...).
Does this change anyone's tips/opinions?
Any product recommendations for doing this?

I'd suggest the iwata eclipse, or badger patriot.

I recommend a cheap double or single action brush to start off with. Dont do what I did and start with a moderately expensive($150) iwata eclipse that you dont know how to use all the features of, or how best to take care of it.

Starting off, you will just be learning how to properly mix paints for airbrushing, where to set the psi, air control, brush control, etc. All of those things are generally more forgiving with a simpler brush.

You probably wont be using it to do much detail work at first, anyway! I certainly dont. My airbrush usually gets used for basecoats, vehicles and terrain. Anything else is too fiddly and I do by hand. Primers and varnishes, I use spray cans-- I dont DARE spray a primer or something like FFA (future floor acrylic, used as a strong varnish) out of a fine tuned Iwata. It will clog it in no time. As it turns out, I need to buy a cheap brush anyway just to spray these!

Which bring me to my next point; if it turns out you like airbrushing, and you want to expand, then by all means get a good one to broaden your horizons. You can continue to use your old cheap single/double for primers, metallics, varnishes, etc.

Yeah, iwata airbrushes are really good ones. I just got mine airbrush kit from a store in Memphis. It is a very decent tool both for beginners and mature artists