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So planning on running kharn with a land raider and 5 thunderclaw terminators with mark of khorne and icon of wrath. Was also thinking bout keeping kharn in the back so that he may not get a attack phase unless it was from a challenge excepted to reduce the death of the terminators at least for the first assault of the game, but that's still just a thought. Just curious about if others find this a sound idea, I just think 35 ws 4 str 5 re roll failed to hit re roll failed to would re roll faild charge ap3 attacks at I 4 coming out of the land raider with a 2+ armour save and kharn taking any openings for a challenge, sitting in the back, or even having him take a chance on taking out a terminator and leading the charge sounded like a fun idea.

A Land Radier can fit 10 models total, Terminator Armor is counted as being Bulky, and therefore 2 models a piece, so you would be putting Kharn and 4 terminators inside a Land Raider to start.

Ideally Kharn will kill most things he comes into contact with, but you should be using him to tear up armor since Gorechild has Armorbane. If you plan to just destroy MCs and things with 2+ saves it's ok but be weary of enemy 3++ invulnerable saves as Kharn himself is still scared of Instant Death Weapons and being doubled out from str 8 weaponry. (IE Thunder Hammers and Powerfists)

Quite true for some reason I thought it held more then a rhino.

skullthroneatendent wrote:
Quite true for some reason I thought it held more then a rhino.

The redeemer and crusader do but unfortunately thats not an option for us baddies :/

Well, there is the roomy, luxurious Spartan addition that holds 20..... if your opponent allows it.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Well, there is the roomy, luxurious Spartan addition that holds 20..... if your opponent allows it.

25. Why wouldn't your opponent allow it?

Yeah the bigger problem is that its lots and lots of points (and $£) Same goes for the kharybdis.

If the opponent doesn't mind FW, the Spartan is actually a great addition for Chaos, it's fluffy (older, relic), it can hold larger units (which Chaos is actually able to field) and it's tough (5hps and option to ignore melta). Add a legacy of ruin from the latest IA book and you got yourself a wonderful assault boat for Kharn and friends.

Cheers.

I'm not sure about Kharn + termies. No sweeping advances and termies are quite expensive in the first place. I'd rather run him with chosen! More bodies. Can sweeping advance.

But it's definitely up to you.

If you go with termies, I'd probably not bother with lightning claws but rather go with mauls/axes and a chainfist and a khornate icon to make charges more reliable and give termies FC. You won't need much to-wound rerolls with s6 axes and s7 maces. A chainfist is important to guarantee a 1-turn death for an IK combined with Kharn's axe attacks.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm not sure about Kharn + termies. No sweeping advances and termies are quite expensive in the first place. I'd rather run him with chosen! More bodies. Can sweeping advance.

But it's definitely up to you.

If you go with termies, I'd probably not bother with lightning claws but rather go with mauls/axes and a chainfist and a khornate icon to make charges more reliable and give termies FC. You won't need much to-wound rerolls with s6 axes and s7 maces. A chainfist is important to guarantee a 1-turn death for an IK combined with Kharn's axe attacks.

Sweeping Advance is unneeded when everyone has Power Weapons to ignore armor in the first place. If the Terminators are MoK, each of them put out 4 attacks on the charge. Chosen suck at the melee role, simply put.
It's also silly you said Terminators are expensive when they cost less to kit out, and I think they even have a smaller startup cost (99 points or so).

So if you must do Kharn, roll him around with 5 MoK Terminators, only 1-2 Chainfists are necessary, throw in a Dark Apostle (because we don't really care about efficiency at this point) with the AoBF, and have a Ceramite Spartan. This will kill things on the charge.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'm not sure about Kharn + termies. No sweeping advances and termies are quite expensive in the first place. I'd rather run him with chosen! More bodies. Can sweeping advance.

But it's definitely up to you.

If you go with termies, I'd probably not bother with lightning claws but rather go with mauls/axes and a chainfist and a khornate icon to make charges more reliable and give termies FC. You won't need much to-wound rerolls with s6 axes and s7 maces. A chainfist is important to guarantee a 1-turn death for an IK combined with Kharn's axe attacks.

Sweeping Advance is unneeded when everyone has Power Weapons to ignore armor in the first place. If the Terminators are MoK, each of them put out 4 attacks on the charge. Chosen suck at the melee role, simply put.
It's also silly you said Terminators are expensive when they cost less to kit out, and I think they even have a smaller startup cost (99 points or so).

So if you must do Kharn, roll him around with 5 MoK Terminators, only 1-2 Chainfists are necessary, throw in a Dark Apostle (because we don't really care about efficiency at this point) with the AoBF, and have a Ceramite Spartan. This will kill things on the charge.

How did you come to a conclusion that chosen are bad for mellee?

They're pretty darn good and more choppy point-to point than termies. Furthermore, they can have non 1-use meltas that don't reduce their attack characteristics as they come stock with bolters and BP+CCW while meltas replace bolters. The thing is that you won't need too much power weapon attacks when you allready have Kharn and a hidden fist.

The thing going for Termies is that they can take a chainfist and are 2+/5++, dedicated landraider.
The things going for Chosen is that you can take up to 9 instead of 4 in a regular landraider, they have more attacks, they can sweeping advance, they have nades, so won't be reduced to ini1 the moment they put a foot in a wood, they have better set of ranged weapons like meltas that don't reduce attacks and they're more durable vs non-ap3 stuff point-to-point.

So, it's a matter of preference. If not for the chainfist and a dedicated landraider, i'd not even consider termies as a retinue other than for looks. If you're going for spartan, i'd even consider a unit of 20 regular dudes with meltas, power fist champ and probably a second HQ (it's transport capacity is 25, right?). If you're crazy enough to run Fabius Bile, you can have a bunch of s6, 4-attack dudes on the charge. Who needs power weapons when you can drown your enemy with wounds, eh. The only downside is that they're not heavy on AT stuff other than a fist and Kharn. But you compensate most downsides with body count which is hilarious. I've run 20-strong infiltrating blobs of slaanesh marines with fnp and i can tell you - they're doing good.

This squad could work with Cypher. This way you can bounce off the stuff you can't kill - like something invisible and tough that even Kharn and a ton of attacks can't whittle down. Shrowded is another neat trick.

 Opera wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
Well, there is the roomy, luxurious Spartan addition that holds 20..... if your opponent allows it.

25. Why wouldn't your opponent allow it?

I know several people who wont play against FW stuff, they say its too op over regular book stuff and gives an unfair advantage. (which is probably for the best because I would have dropped so much on FW by now hahahha)

Kharn is such a combat monster but he does have that nast backswing at AP2 which tends to murder his mates.

Now if he is your warlord then he has hatred so its not a problem first turn of any combat (you got to roll 1 then another 1 thanks to his 2+ to hit).

I have played him in a squad with 30 cultists (go hellcult for extra buffs) and he is a total boss like this. But it depends on the rest of your melee stuff, if its flesh hounds, lords and spawn you might need the raider to keep up.

As for the contents of the raider id either go for 3 obliterators (sadly cant have MoN) or 9 khorne marked chaos space marines (or chosen if you have loads of points to burn)

Obliterators can use their twin linked multimeltas to pop transports so you can charge the squishies. Or if things are going well you can have kharne split off out of the raider and charge somebody else (just make sure to have a dirge caster on to prevent him taking overwatch).

Kharn can happily go in solo against imperial knights, assault marine squads, biker squads and all kinds of middling tough units. Just don't charge a smashmaster

A final option if you go with cultists is to take a bastion with escape hatch, this will let him keep up with spawn and bikers.

 koooaei wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'm not sure about Kharn + termies. No sweeping advances and termies are quite expensive in the first place. I'd rather run him with chosen! More bodies. Can sweeping advance.

But it's definitely up to you.

If you go with termies, I'd probably not bother with lightning claws but rather go with mauls/axes and a chainfist and a khornate icon to make charges more reliable and give termies FC. You won't need much to-wound rerolls with s6 axes and s7 maces. A chainfist is important to guarantee a 1-turn death for an IK combined with Kharn's axe attacks.

Sweeping Advance is unneeded when everyone has Power Weapons to ignore armor in the first place. If the Terminators are MoK, each of them put out 4 attacks on the charge. Chosen suck at the melee role, simply put.
It's also silly you said Terminators are expensive when they cost less to kit out, and I think they even have a smaller startup cost (99 points or so).

So if you must do Kharn, roll him around with 5 MoK Terminators, only 1-2 Chainfists are necessary, throw in a Dark Apostle (because we don't really care about efficiency at this point) with the AoBF, and have a Ceramite Spartan. This will kill things on the charge.

How did you come to a conclusion that chosen are bad for mellee?

They're pretty darn good and more choppy point-to point than termies. Furthermore, they can have non 1-use meltas that don't reduce their attack characteristics as they come stock with bolters and BP+CCW while meltas replace bolters. The thing is that you won't need too much power weapon attacks when you allready have Kharn and a hidden fist.

The thing going for Termies is that they can take a chainfist and are 2+/5++, dedicated landraider.
The things going for Chosen is that you can take up to 9 instead of 4 in a regular landraider, they have more attacks, they can sweeping advance, they have nades, so won't be reduced to ini1 the moment they put a foot in a wood, they have better set of ranged weapons like meltas that don't reduce attacks and they're more durable vs non-ap3 stuff point-to-point.

So, it's a matter of preference. If not for the chainfist and a dedicated landraider, i'd not even consider termies as a retinue other than for looks. If you're going for spartan, i'd even consider a unit of 20 regular dudes with meltas, power fist champ and probably a second HQ (it's transport capacity is 25, right?). If you're crazy enough to run Fabius Bile, you can have a bunch of s6, 4-attack dudes on the charge. Who needs power weapons when you can drown your enemy with wounds, eh. The only downside is that they're not heavy on AT stuff other than a fist and Kharn. But you compensate most downsides with body count which is hilarious. I've run 20-strong infiltrating blobs of slaanesh marines with fnp and i can tell you - they're doing good.

This squad could work with Cypher. This way you can bounce off the stuff you can't kill - like something invisible and tough that even Kharn and a ton of attacks can't whittle down. Shrowded is another neat trick.

Here's how that conclusion works:
1. 18 points for a model that has nothing going for it except 3 attacks including equipment. Being able to take multiple Special Weapons means nothing when they're on a Power Armored body that's expensive like that in the first place. Extra bodies don't really help protect when those bodies are still expensive. See how this is working?
2. All Power Weapons on 2 attack bodies is better than 3 attacks with no Power Weapons. Mauls and Axes are REALLY good. "Hidden Power Fist" is not a great tactic when that single power fist is once again on a 3+ body and will only hit half the time anyway. 38 points gives you a Terminator with a hidden power fist. That's 5 points less than a Chosen holding a Power Fist. Likewise, sweeping isn't needed when things are either going to be Fearless or be dead on the charge anyway. Plus, sweeping leaves you open in the next shooting phase for the opponent.
3. Fair point on multiple use Meltas. A single Chainfist or two along with Combis is all that's really needed though. How often are you really getting multiple uses out of Meltas anyway? Not many I'm willing to bet, unless you face brain-dead opponents a lot. I'm also not seeing how taking the Combi-Weapons reduces their attack output.
4. Grenades won't matter when the best weapons strike at I1 anyway. Take Axes, and all the sudden that lost initiative was a non-issue.
5. No they really aren't more durable vs. AP3 and up. These are 18 point models, not 13 point ones from the Troops section. 2 cost more than a Terminator (36 to 31), which is not great.

I am surprised so many people put kharne with units that already overkill most targets.

I personally love to put kharne with naked CSM in a dream claw. The unit is almost assured a turn 2 charge and few enemy units can withstand kharne for 2 combat phases (which is when you want to win). This is one of my answers for Imperial Knights btw.

If not allowed forgeworld I will throw the same unit in a Landraider with Be'lakor to hide behind it for invisibility.

 ansacs wrote:
I am surprised so many people put kharne with units that already overkill most targets.

I personally love to put kharne with naked CSM in a dream claw. The unit is almost assured a turn 2 charge and few enemy units can withstand kharne for 2 combat phases (which is when you want to win). This is one of my answers for Imperial Knights btw.

If not allowed forgeworld I will throw the same unit in a Landraider with Be'lakor to hide behind it for invisibility.

I run this EXACT same setup. I give the CSM's either Melta/Combimelta or Flamer/Combiflamer + meltabomb dependant on their job. This unit has eaten knights, baneblades and infantry squads whole.