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.....Seems really good. A bunch of cheap ork planes flying around gunning stuff down? Yes please. They also have the ability to restore hull points and reload their bombs when they fly into ongoing reserves


Has anyone had any playtest experience with this?

Angrygrot wrote:
A bunch of cheap ork planes

Probably one of the reasons not many people run ork planes is that they're not really cheap for what they do. And when you consider running so much, you're like putting 600 pts in reserves. Which is absolutely unacceptable in games below 2.5k at least. If they were on board starting from turn 1 like sm stormtalons - that'd be great. But as is, it's not worth the effort in anything other than casual games.

And the bonus formation currently provides is situational at best. Well, it's handy, but you're handicapping yourself pretty hard by bringing 5 ork planes in the first place and the bonuses don't outweight the drawbacks.

Well...if one plays a 1500 point game and someone has the ability to board you turn one and effectively wipe out 700 points wouldn't you lose anyway reguardless?

Angrygrot wrote:
Well...if one plays a 1500 point game and someone has the ability to board you turn one and effectively wipe out 700 points wouldn't you lose anyway reguardless?

It's not about wiping out. It's about board controle. Orks rely on overwhelming numbers and target saturation. You have no numbers with so much stuff in reserves. The same problem as with kommando formation - too much stuff off board and unreliable reserves.

Also, include a fortification with comms relay - another 100 pts as you do want to get as many planes on board asap.

I'm not even talking about ork planes being mediocre in the first place.

Well, if you do have enough planes, why not try it out? I'm just a bit pessimistic about it as i've had pretty meh experience with ork planes. Every time i try to squeeze in a dakkajet or blitza bomber i end up regretting not having brought other stuff like more boyz, truckboyz, more mek gunz, more stormboyz, etc. Stuff that is the core or support that's allready present and not support that's gona start supporting...some time later if i manage to roll 3+.

Well you made a good point about target saturation. Perhaps taking 1 plane is not enough because its to easy to focus and take down...but having multiple planes on the board at once doing their thing?

I was doing the numbers and I can still fit in quite a bit despite leaving so much in reserve....Mek gunz behind a wall, which are always cheap, a good blob of shoota boyz with a painboy, a warboss in mega armor with his retinue in a battlewagon? I could divide my forces a bit and use trukks but I don't really like using low squads of boyz in trukks these days :/

Angrygrot wrote:
Well you made a good point about target saturation. Perhaps taking 1 plane is not enough because its to easy to focus and take down...but having multiple planes on the board at once doing their thing

Probably. But how to get them on board at once when needed?

Well with 5 planes, 4/6 chance on each to come in, most likely I'll get a decent amount. All of them would be nice but its not like if 1 or 2 don't come in I'm dead in the water.

Turn 2 say 3 come in....I Waaagh! to pick up the shooting slack, get stuck in, and most likely get the rest next turn to mop up random unengaged units trying to grab objectives.

Didn't necrons have a cron air build where half or more of their army started in reserves using night scythes? I thought that was considered a top tier army? I could be wrong though...

Angrygrot wrote:
Well with 5 planes, 4/6 chance on each to come in, most likely I'll get a decent amount. All of them would be nice but its not like if 1 or 2 don't come in I'm dead in the water.

Didn't necrons have a cron air build where half or more of their army started in reserves using night scythes? I thought that was considered a top tier army? I could be wrong though...

You're comparing 13-13-11 transports that fire s7 shots that generate extra hits with 10-10-10 s6 shots. For roughly the same cost. Furthermore, scythes were always supported by wraithwing - extremely durable and mobile squads - more durable and reliable than our bikers. Flycrons were a thing cause they were designed to be skimmers - not flyers. And cost like skimmers. Which was hugely underpriced for flyers. While ork flyers are designed to be flyers and cost like flyers - probably too much for what they do.

I suppose I might be making a bit of an unfair comparison...but they still can only be hit on 6s...can jink...and if dedicated anti air aimed at a flier would +1 armor value make a huge difference statistically? (I thought the night scythe is 11 on all sides?)

Angrygrot wrote:
I suppose I might be making a bit of an unfair comparison...but they still can only be hit on 6s...can jink...and if dedicated anti air aimed at a flier would +2 armor value make a huge difference statistically? (I thought their front armor was 12 and side 11?)

Well, yep, 10-10-10 flyers have to jink like crazy against lots of stuff that's even not dedicated anti-air like AC/HB while av13 can easilly ignore most anti-air. Even dedicated anti-air.

I'd probably field ork planes if they were 30% cheaper, though. They're not that bad. Just overpriced for what they do and don't really help swarming your opponent - the thing i like doing with orks.
Or if they had some nice tricks. For example, a blitza bomber is appealing cause of a s7 ap2 bomb that can be dropped on invisible targets - that's handy and i've really considered bringing one.

But after a few tries, i'm not really satisfied with it. Reserves are not really reliable and you got to plan ahead to be able to actually drop the bomb where need. And the rule that allows you firing at the target you've passed over if you're lucky is broken - yes, you can shoot, but you can't inflict wounds cause the target is out of los and you can't wound targets that are out of los. That was just the final nay for the bomber combined with being overpriced and unreliable.

Don't get me wrong, you won't auto-loose if you bring one flyer. It's just not a super-great auto-include unit. Like 1000-sons. If you bring 1 squad, they're gonabe fine. But if you bring 5, you're handicapping your list. Formation bonuses are not that good.

I see...yeah I just checked and it appears the night scythe has 11 armor on all sides....I'm confused how do they have 13?

Angrygrot wrote:
I see...yeah I just checked and it appears the night scythe has 11 armor on all sides....I'm confused how do they have 13?

Crons have specific gear that adds +2 to front and side until you get penned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited the previous post.

We probably need someone with actual experience of running this formation to say if it's good or not. As all the points i'm providing are based on me running just 1 flyer and theoryhammering onwards. I hope i'm wrong cause ork flyers do look cool!

 koooaei wrote:

Angrygrot wrote:
I see...yeah I just checked and it appears the night scythe has 11 armor on all sides....I'm confused how do they have 13?

Crons have specific gear that adds +2 to front and side until you get penned.

Which their flyers don't get

I can actually see this formation working well with a Green Tide. The extra Waaagh! should benefit them, or failing that a Weirdboy.

The Formation rules are nice for the Burna/Blitza. Burna flies on, fires all 4 Rokkits, next turn flies off dropping a bomb on its way out. Comes back next turn.

Thank you for clearing that up Grendel083.

Would you happen to have any advice on how to maintain decent board control with so many points in reserve? Using massed 30 point objective secured trukks comes to mind. Empty, zooming around the field as needed, with my main force following behind?

I thought bomb rules assigning wounds like a barrage weapon negated the need for Los?

I'm of the thinking that the dakkajet just doesn't put out enough shots, the formation needed a dakka bonus IMO. If your meta has excessive fliers then the fliers are good if you aren't running any tractor kannon

I think the formation is nifty, but a little impractical. That being said, if I had the planes, you bet your buns I'd play it because I love playing impractical stuff.

I feel our planes ARE a tad costly for what they do, but they are still an advantage for us. I brought a single Blitza Bommer in my last game, and it more than made up for its points. Having a S7 Ap2 Armorbane large blast that ONLY scatters D6 with Barrage rules is absolutely amazing for picking off vehicles or crippling a nasty unit you've been struggling to take down. The Burna Bommas are nice too because they can ignore cover with their bombs, albeit having weaker bombs.

My only major gripe is how unreliable reserves are. This is a mechanic that needs to simply DIE. You should be able to have reserves, as a proper general would plan waves of attacks, not just flat out have everything revealed. You should be able to call them on after turn 1 if you desire, or start them on board if you really want too.

I get reserves rolls are to 'simulate' complications. Maybe the planes got off course or had to deal with enemy planes off scene, or there was a sudden pick up in turbulence/wind or something that slowed them down. Communication failure, etc. But it's stupid. Plain stupid. I've lost games because I can't roll a fething 3 on a 6 sided dice for 3 turns straight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grendel083 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Angrygrot wrote:
I see...yeah I just checked and it appears the night scythe has 11 armor on all sides....I'm confused how do they have 13?

Crons have specific gear that adds +2 to front and side until you get penned.

Which their flyers don't get

I can actually see this formation working well with a Green Tide. The extra Waaagh! should benefit them, or failing that a Weirdboy.

The Formation rules are nice for the Burna/Blitza. Burna flies on, fires all 4 Rokkits, next turn flies off dropping a bomb on its way out. Comes back next turn.

I'd be worried using this with green tide. You have so many dudes, you'd have to be SO careful not to deny your own planes room to move, lest they crash and burn as a result of one boy being out of place and preventing it from landing.

I was thinking about how to maintain board presence with large chunks of points in reserve...Orky Imperial Guard comes to mind.

Using masses of mek gunz with toughness 7, multiple wounds and 3+ saves bubble wrapped by boyz/gretchin, using small units of trukks (possibly empty) like probes at the ready just in case you need a quick objective grab....


I kind of like this because it forces opponents to fight on your terms, and you force them to come to you, which, if you are tau or IG, can be a bad time, but not for the ladz.

The planes can then come in and mop up their backfield to prevent them from making to much use out of their pie plates.


We could also use strategic traits that give our troops inf. to act as speed bumps

Hammer and Anvil orks eh?

 grendel083 wrote:

I can actually see this formation working well with a Green Tide. The extra Waaagh! should benefit them, or failing that a Weirdboy.

It's gona be pretty hard to place them correctly as you'll have to leave enough open space - preferably 10 large open spaces amidst your greentide. first 5 to allow them come out of reserves and second 5 in case they get stunned to not crash and burn due to not being able to place a base on the table (YAY! for flyer rules). Another thing is that the opponent will be eager to bombard your horde with your own planes. That's hilarious, however!

And how does a wierdboy help them? I recall old dex builds with 3 dakkajets and many wierdboyz for WAAAGH! but they no longer call WAAAGH!

Planes do not benefit from weirdboyz sadly. Only when you call a Waaaagh! With your warboss.

I'd prefer running green tide with mek gunz.

I could have sworn there was still a Waaagh! power