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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 18:12:43
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I saw a little blurb on Facebook about this, and I only found 3 kinds of stories about this: really short ones with no info, ones that are wildly biased in favor of the police, and ones wildly biased the other way (like a microcosm of the comments to follow, amusingly). I picked the most sort-of-unbiased piece I can find but like posting something from Huffpo, you;re sort of embarrassed even if the facts are correct.
The tragic death of John Wrana shouldn't happen again
Posted: 02/04/2015, 06:14pm | Mary Mitchell
Park Forest Police Officer Craig Taylor | Brian Jackson/Sun-Times
For many reasons, there is nothing to celebrate in the acquittal of Park Forest Police Officer Craig Taylor in the death of John Wrana.
No one has been held accountable for the 95-year-old World War II veteran’s death, and there are still a lot of unanswered questions about the 2013 incident.
Despite the acquittal, Taylor will struggle to have a normal life. A family man of modest means, Taylor still faces a multimillion-dollar wrongful death lawsuit by Wrana’s family.
Although there are no marches, street protests or demands for a federal investigation, an acquittal in a police-involved death is always taken as a slap in the face to the victim’s family members and supporters.
This case is no exception.
After raising questions about why Taylor, a black police officer, was indicted when so many white police officers were not indicted for shooting unarmed black youths, I received a ton of angry responses from people who believed Taylor should go to jail.
But Cook County Associate Judge Luciano Panici did the only thing he could do when he ruled Taylor did not use excessive force.
“There was nothing criminal about his actions,” Panici said in announcing his acquittal.
Despite Wrana’s advanced age, he was threatening police officers with a weapon.
Still, unlike what happened in other recent cases involving white police officers elsewhere, the Cook County state’s attorney’s office decided to prosecute Taylor.
After the acquittal, State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez defended her decision.
“I really think other actions could have been taken and more restraint shown,” Alvarez told reporters.
Taylor was charged with criminal reckless conduct for firing five beanbag rounds at Wrana, who was wielding a knife.
Obviously, common sense could have prevented this tragedy.
It is still unclear why trained staff failed to restrain Wrana and called in armed police officers to subdue the elderly man.
Even more troubling, why was Taylor the only police officer charged with a crime since he was following orders from his supervisor?
Taylor was left to shoulder the burden of what turned out to be a bad strategy.
Obviously, Wrana’s family and supporters were devastated by their loss.
They deserved answers about why so many people made bad decisions that day.
But it was unfair to put all of the blame on Taylor when everyone who encountered Wrana apparently failed him.
Frankly, this was a tragedy that could have been avoided had staff members been better trained to deal with combative residents.
Additionally, Wrana’s death set off alarms for every family dealing with an aging loved one.
Because we are worried about the quality of care, many of us are reluctant to put our elderly relatives in senior care facilities despite the hardship it causes when we try to provide care.
What happened to Wrana in a place that was supposed to be a safe haven confirmed our worst nightmares.
It is my hope that this tragedy will motivate officials at other senior care facilities to review their policies regarding how staff handles combative residents.
This senseless tragedy can’t be allowed to happen to anyone else.
source
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/05 18:13:00
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 18:18:09
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Waiting for people to come in and say racism is dead in America. *gets chair. Prepares popcorn.*
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/05 18:18:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 18:19:57
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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It's only alive if you keep pointing it out!
Stop it!
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Prestor Jon wrote:Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 18:24:27
Subject: Re:It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Five bean bags.  one tough WWII Vet.
Still though.....old man equal mace not bags. I want him alive for intel
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 18:47:47
Subject: Re:It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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I'd seen this before but it mentioned that he was tasered and then shot with beanbag rounds.
How is the family able to sue the officer as an individual rather than as an employee of the state? What are they going to get from him other than to completely ruining him?
It seems hard to get clear details on this case, more so than usual.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 19:34:18
Subject: Re:It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Yes - I'm at work so I can't dig into this as much as I'd like but just a casual search shows this to be quite poorly reported.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 19:42:27
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Do they pro-rate in these kinds of situations? Like, is the wrongful death of a healthy 40 year old subject to a larger suit than that of a 95 year old?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 19:44:13
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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cincydooley wrote:Do they pro-rate in these kinds of situations? Like, is the wrongful death of a healthy 40 year old subject to a larger suit than that of a 95 year old?
That is exactly how the value of lives are calculated for civil torts; a major component is the loss of future earning power.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 19:47:16
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wrana-beanbag-shooting-verdict-met-20150204-story.html#page=1
The judge was only halfway through his ruling Wednesday when it became clear that Park Forest police Officer Craig Taylor would not be held criminally responsible for firing beanbag rounds at a knife-wielding World War II veteran who died hours later of internal bleeding.
In describing Taylor's actions that night in July 2013, Cook County Associate Judge Luciano Panici began using terms like "fearing for his life" and "reasonable use of force."
But Taylor continued to listen calmly, eyes downcast at the defense table, the courtroom gallery behind him packed with uniformed cops showing their support. It wasn't until Panici uttered the words "not guilty" that the 10-year veteran officer dropped his head and sobbed for a moment, then jumped up and hugged his wife tightly, his face buried in her shoulder.
Across the courtroom, relatives of the 95-year-old victim, John Wrana Jr., held each other in the Markham courtroom, tears in their eyes.
Taylor's acquittal on a single felony count of reckless conduct marked a dramatic end to a case that highlighted the difficulty of proving criminal charges against an officer who insisted he had acted out of fear for his life and that of other officers with him
An agitated Wrana had holed up in his room at the Victory Centre assisted living facility in the south suburb and threatened to kill the police.
The judge's verdict was a blow for State's Attorney Anita Alvarez, who has brought several cases against police officers in recent years in what she has said is a stepped-up effort to hold police accountable when they cross the line.
After the verdict, Alvarez defended bringing the charge against Taylor, saying that she truly believed his actions were reckless and that the trial "shed a light on police procedures."
"I really think other actions could have been taken and more restraint shown," Alvarez told reporters after attending an unrelated sentencing at the Leighton Criminal Court Building in Chicago.
Taylor, 44, had faced anywhere from probation up to three years in prison if convicted.
The case against Taylor unfolded amid national scrutiny on police use-of-force tactics sparked by the high-profile deaths of two unarmed black men in Missouri and New York. While lacking the racial element of those controversial cases, Taylor's trial focused on a similar theme: When should an officer's use of force be considered excessive?
In his ruling, Panici said the legal answer to that question requires thinking about the use of force "from the perspective of the officer, not the 20/20 vision of hindsight."
John Wrana's stepdaughter Sharon Mangerson speaks to the news media at the Markham courthouse after an April 2014 hearing at which Park Forest police Officer Craig Taylor pleaded not guilty to felony reckless conduct in Wrana's death.
A memorial card for veteran John Wrana, provided by the John H. Blakey Center for Seniors in Glenwood.
Noting that Taylor's commander — who was not charged — had come up with the plan to have Taylor shoot beanbag rounds from a shotgun if Wrana continued to disobey commands, Panici said Taylor's decision to fire five shots in rapid succession was "not excessive."
"He was faced with an advancing individual with a knife over his head, threatening to kill him and his fellow police officers," Panici said. "There was nothing criminal about his actions."
Alvarez said prosecutors considered charging the officer's supervisor as well but ultimately decided against it after a "legal analysis of accountability."
"Based on the facts and the law, we felt that the charges should only be brought against the officer who actually took the actions," she said.
After the ruling, Taylor's lawyer, Terry Ekl, told reporters it was a "shame" that Taylor had to go through the trauma of being arrested, handcuffed and brought to court. But he also said that by having the facts aired out in court, the public was able to see that Taylor "did absolutely nothing wrong."
Asked how the indictment had impacted Taylor, Ekl said, "He has not had a good night's sleep since the day he found out he was being indicted. He wakes up in the middle of the night. It's had a terrible effect on him emotionally."
Taylor, who has been on desk duty since being charged last April, hopes to return to active duty, but he still faces a multimillion-dollar wrongful-death lawsuit brought by Wrana's family in U.S. District Court. Ekl said he would not let Taylor publicly comment on his acquittal because of the pending lawsuit.
The Wrana family had no comment on the verdict. But in a statement issued to the Tribune on Wednesday afternoon, their attorney in the lawsuit said the family "looks towards their day in federal court where they believe that all (of) the persons responsible for John Wrana's homicide will be held accountable under the civil law."
Prosecutors argued during the three-day bench trial in January that Taylor and four other officers had rushed to judgment the night they were called to Wrana's room, deciding within minutes to employ a "violent extrication" that led to Wrana's death.
According to trial testimony, officers had twice gone into Wrana's room, only to retreat after he threatened them — first with a long, red-handled shoehorn and his black metal cane, later with a filleting knife with a 7-inch blade.
Cmdr. Michael Baugh conferred outside Wrana's apartment with Cpl. Lloyd Elliot, then instructed the group to form a "stack" — a staggered, single-file line — to enter Wrana's room, with Baugh in the lead carrying a shield and Taser, according to testimony.
Baugh ordered Wrana to drop the knife. When he didn't, the commander fired the Taser, but its prongs missed.
Taylor, who was second in the line, twice ordered Wrana to drop the knife and then fired the beanbag rounds. Four rounds struck Wrana, who dropped the knife into a small plastic garbage can after being struck in the hand by the final shot.
Wrana died five hours later after refusing surgery to repair an intestine that was torn and other injuries that caused massive internal bleeding.
In the trial's emotional highlight, Taylor testified that he feared for his life and those of his fellow officers when Wrana took a shuffling step forward with the knife raised. Taylor said that after the first shot or two failed to stop Wrana, he thought he had the authority to use lethal force — opening fire with his handgun — but chose not to, in part because of Wrana's advanced age.
Prosecutors alleged Taylor fired the rounds from a much closer range than called for during training. Their case also rested heavily on Francis Murphy, a former Secret Service supervisor who testified that the officers had other options and escalated the confrontation by storming Wrana's room.
Murphy testified the officers could have used their ballistic shield to knock Wrana to the ground, deployed pepper spray to disable him or simply retreated and allowed him time to cool off.
But the judge blasted those assertions in his ruling, saying staff at the facility had been trying to calm him down "for the entire day" to no avail.
"The evidence clearly indicated that Mr. Wrana had become more agitated as time progressed," Panici said.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 20:00:18
Subject: Re:It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Based on that report... I don't see anything wrong... This stood out to me: Wrana died five hours later after refusing surgery to repair an intestine that was torn and other injuries that caused massive internal bleeding. I've been tazor'ed... but, I've never been hit with bean bags. Seems to me, tazoring a 95 yo man carries more risk than getting beaned. This should've never been taken to trial.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/05 20:00:27
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 20:03:55
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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In the trial's emotional highlight, Taylor testified that he feared for his life and those of his fellow officers when Wrana took a shuffling step forward with the knife raised. Taylor said that after the first shot or two failed to stop Wrana, he thought he had the authority to use lethal force — opening fire with his handgun — but chose not to, in part because of Wrana's advanced age.
]
I think this is my favorite part of the whole thing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 20:07:18
Subject: Re:It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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I'd imagine you'd refuse surgery at that age due to the increased likelihood of complications and the fact that you'd never really recover.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/05 20:07:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 20:34:26
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 20:38:36
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Xenomancers wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ferguson-mo-police-department-is-first-in-us-to-test-less-lethal-gun-attachment/2015/02/03/c6772af8-abb7-11e4-ad71-7b9eba0f87d6_story.html
Have you seen this? Seems related.
Dunno how practical that is, but it does seem to "fit" a "warning shot" procedure.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 20:53:36
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Xenomancers wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ferguson-mo-police-department-is-first-in-us-to-test-less-lethal-gun-attachment/2015/02/03/c6772af8-abb7-11e4-ad71-7b9eba0f87d6_story.html
Have you seen this? Seems related.
That was a decision after the Michael Brown case. I doubt the usefulness of the device in the Michael Brown case. In this case it took 4 bean bag rounds to taken down the suspect. Seems of very limited practical use.
The idea is not new, but "less lethal" can still be lethal;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_bullet
Use in Northern Ireland[edit]
The plastic bullet was first used in 1973 by the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), Northern Ireland's police force,[12] and by 1975 it had replaced the rubber bullet.[7] From 1973 to 1981, just over 42,600 plastic bullets were fired in Northern Ireland. By 2005, 125,000 baton rounds had been fired, most of them plastic bullets.[7]
Shortly after their introduction it was discovered they were lethal at certain ranges.[13] Fourteen people were killed by plastic bullet impacts; half of them were children and all but one were from the Catholic community.[14] Most of the deaths were allegedly[15][16][17] caused by the British security forces misusing the weapon, firing at close range and at chest or head level rather than targeting below the waist. In 2013 however, Ministry of Defense papers declassified from 1977 indicated in one case that a single round was fired because the lives of the soldiers were believed to be in danger, and for this reason the MoD was not prepared to accept that the soldiers acted wrongly, seemingly regardless of known weapon misuse.[18] The first person to be killed by a plastic bullet impact was 10-year-old Stephen Geddis, who died on 30 August 1975, two days after being struck in west Belfast.[14] One of the most high-profile victims was 12-year-old Carol Ann Kelly from west Belfast, who died on 22 May 1981, having been struck by a plastic bullet fired by a member of the Royal Fusiliers.[19][20] In 1982, the European Parliament called on member states to ban the use of plastic bullets.[21] However, they continued to be used by the British security forces in Northern Ireland. In 1984 the United Campaign Against Plastic Bullets was founded, calling for plastic bullets to be banned in Northern Ireland. One of its founders, Emma Groves, had been permanently blinded in 1971 when a British soldier shot her in the face with a rubber bullet. During rioting in July 1997, a 14-year-old boy was struck in the head by a plastic bullet and spent three days in a coma.[22]
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbullet.htm
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 21:47:53
Subject: It's been a few weeks since our last cop shooting thread
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Ouze wrote: cincydooley wrote:Do they pro-rate in these kinds of situations? Like, is the wrongful death of a healthy 40 year old subject to a larger suit than that of a 95 year old?
That is exactly how the value of lives are calculated for civil torts; a major component is the loss of future earning power.
That makes a lot of sense. Callous, sure, but so are actuary tables.
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