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With the White Dwarf last week, we know what our gear does and what it's going to cost. That said, I have not seen any serious conversations on how people will be kitting out their troupes.

Knowing that we don't have the starweaver transport data, FOC or HQs... do you already have a few builds in mind? What weapons will you take and on how many harlequins? Are you already planning to stuff them in battle brother transports?

I did some math and what I discovered is that for a normal trouper ON THE CHARGE, the most points/unsaved wounds efficient weapons are the caress for nidzilla, kiss for terminators, and the embrace for MEQ and TEQ (the caress and kiss are in a dead heat with the embrace against MEQ).

The troupe leader is a big difference, though. The caress is most efficient (it gets more efficient the more attacks you have available) except against MEQ (it ties the power sword in efficiency, but the sword will cause more wounds) and GEQ (embrace is better on the charge).

Bear in mind, the big issue with the embrace is if you don't get the charge, it's total crap, and any round of combat afterward it's terrible, but you could always hit and run (if you survive 2 rounds of combat).

The other issue we have is we need chaff troupers to eat overwatch as a 5+ invuln means we're still going to lose a couple on the charge. All that in mind, the builds I have in mind so far are:

5 man troupe in a venom, and give 2 troupers kisses and the master a caress.

10 man troupe in a raider (nightshield/disintegrator), 6 kisses and the master with a caress. (terminator/nid hunters)

Thoughts?

I'm seeing the troupe as more of a troop choice. It's obsec and will have some punch in CC, but it's not going to be the super awesome killy unit that dances through armies. I'd reckon that would be a mixture of other units.

I'm looking at right now a 5 man troupe with 2 neuro disruptors and 2 caresses, one pair on a regular member and the other pair on the leader. I've already got a Solitaire for his kiss and amazing stats, and the rest of the army will hopefully be supported with skyweavers for their ap2 shots / combat.

The troupe's goal is to harass. Keeping the points down with wargear is essential as well. That being said, it's a nice unit. Fleshbane hurts everything and with the leader's BS5, that neuro disruptor becomes quite a pain. The two caresses allows them to charge into pretty much anything and hold their own. Having 3 ablative wounds in the squad is also a nice deal.

I am waiting to see what the details on the starweaver are, guessing it will have transport capacity 6 since the harlequins box has 6 models...

nidzilla doesn't exist like it did before, at least in my meta. Itsmostly flyerzilla, or mothrazilla now. Just not going to charge them that often. I think the Kiss is the best bet on the troupe. Caress is not always the most effecient because it requires a roll of 6. A harlequin on the charge with two assault weapons has 4 attacks, meaning you have a good chance to roll a 6 (51.7% chance to roll at least one 6 on 4 dice).

Obviously having more attacks makes caress more likely to get more hits. There is the possibility to roll 4 6's on 4 dice(.6%), but it is very very low, the chance to not roll a single 6 is manyfold higher (48.3%). Consider each model with a caress on the charge has close to a 50% chance to get no bonus attacks at str6 ap2. Of course they do have the lucky chance to get a lot each, but the more we roll the more likely it is to not roll a lot of 6s. That's because we are not likely to be 'lucky' a lot of times.

the basis for competitive play is being able to have a good prediction of the outcome of things, as such competitively the caress is possibly the worst option for a standard troupe. Master its not bad, solitaire its great (especially with blitz)

I think you think the embrace is bad, and I agree with you. it is not the best option, and is probably the bottom of the three options.

The troupe has grenades so they strike at I when charging units in cover/terrain, and they have I6 so there's not much bonus in generating attacks at i10.

it does add some versatility against walkers/light vehicles. D3 attacks with HoW hit the facing of the vehicle you assault from as per HoW. Combined with a few fusion pistols you can create an unit that can have a light threat to heavy armor, and more of a threat to AV 12 or less. If you get the rear of a walker, you can possibly fusion pistol it twice, then charge and get off 2d3 Str 6 hits on its rear armor, because of the rule for HoW. This will probably take off another 2 HP and kill the walker. The issue then is that you have to pretty much always assault the sides and rears of things because HoW hits the facing you assault from, so although walkers dont get to turn and face and you hit front armor, against other vehicles you don't count as getting rear armor like you would for normal assault attacks. Otherwise theres not much use for it.

I think for the troup the kiss is the best weapon.

blaktoof wrote:
I am waiting to see what the details on the starweaver are, guessing it will have transport capacity 6 since the harlequins box has 6 models...

nidzilla doesn't exist like it did before, at least in my meta. Itsmostly flyerzilla, or mothrazilla now. Just not going to charge them that often. I think the Kiss is the best bet on the troupe. Caress is not always the most effecient because it requires a roll of 6. A harlequin on the charge with two assault weapons has 4 attacks, meaning you have a good chance to roll a 6 (51.7% chance to roll at least one 6 on 4 dice).

Obviously having more attacks makes caress more likely to get more hits. There is the possibility to roll 4 6's on 4 dice(.6%), but it is very very low, the chance to not roll a single 6 is manyfold higher (48.3%). Consider each model with a caress on the charge has close to a 50% chance to get no bonus attacks at str6 ap2. Of course they do have the lucky chance to get a lot each, but the more we roll the more likely it is to not roll a lot of 6s. That's because we are not likely to be 'lucky' a lot of times.

the basis for competitive play is being able to have a good prediction of the outcome of things, as such competitively the caress is possibly the worst option for a standard troupe. Master its not bad, solitaire its great (especially with blitz)

I think you think the embrace is bad, and I agree with you. it is not the best option, and is probably the bottom of the three options.

The troupe has grenades so they strike at I when charging units in cover/terrain, and they have I6 so there's not much bonus in generating attacks at i10.

it does add some versatility against walkers/light vehicles. D3 attacks with HoW hit the facing of the vehicle you assault from as per HoW. Combined with a few fusion pistols you can create an unit that can have a light threat to heavy armor, and more of a threat to AV 12 or less. If you get the rear of a walker, you can possibly fusion pistol it twice, then charge and get off 2d3 Str 6 hits on its rear armor, because of the rule for HoW. This will probably take off another 2 HP and kill the walker. The issue then is that you have to pretty much always assault the sides and rears of things because HoW hits the facing you assault from, so although walkers dont get to turn and face and you hit front armor, against other vehicles you don't count as getting rear armor like you would for normal assault attacks. Otherwise theres not much use for it.

I think for the troup the kiss is the best weapon.

I think you're onto something here. My thoughts right now are to have different troupes have different roles. For example, I am probably going to have one "cheap" troupe that has mostly close combat weapons, a couple embraces, haywire 'nades on the Troupe Master and a fusion pistol or two, and try to use them as anti-vehicle with the ability to harass light infantry as a backup plan. Then I will have another troupe with all Kisses and a Caress/Neuro Disruptor on the Troupe Master for an anti-MC/heavy infantry unit. I think it will be important, as the OP noted, to have one or two 15 point dudes out front to eat overwatch regardless. Losing 20-25 point models to overwatch is going to suck, especially with small squad sizes. It will be better, I think, to have squads in the 8-10 size range so they still have some hitting power even after losing a couple of models.

i'm in wait and see mode

Got 2 troupe boxes yesterday... slammed through 1 squad and want to try it in a game against my brother if possible tomorrow.

Going to run it 5 man in a venom (dark eldar main faction) with 2 kisses and a troupe master with caress and neuro pistol.

I think I'll have two troupes with star weavers, a unit of sky weavers and a solitaire allied to my Ulthwe eldar.

I intend to have both troupes outfitted the same for redundancy. Assuming a troupe in a star weaver is max six models, I'd go 4x kisses and 2x caresses. Two neuro disruptors as well. Out of those mentioned, the troupe master would get a caress and neuro disruptor. Tempted by haywire grenades for only a few points for that opportunistic tank busting moment. Intrigued to see what the Enigmas of the Black Library are...

As for the sky weavers, I'm thinking a unit of three or four. If three, then 1 with shuriken cannon and star bolas and the others with haywire cannon and zephyrglaive.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
I think I'll have two troupes with star weavers, a unit of sky weavers and a solitaire allied to my Ulthwe eldar.

I intend to have both troupes outfitted the same for redundancy. Assuming a troupe in a star weaver is max six models, I'd go 4x kisses and 2x caresses. Two neuro disruptors as well. Out of those mentioned, the troupe master would get a caress and neuro disruptor. Tempted by haywire grenades for only a few points for that opportunistic tank busting moment. Intrigued to see what the Enigmas of the Black Library are...

As for the sky weavers, I'm thinking a unit of three or four. If three, then 1 with shuriken cannon and star bolas and the others with haywire cannon and zephyrglaive.

Sounds like a reasonable load out. I am torn on the bikes - probably just going to magnetize the weapons, as I just can't figure out whether the haywire would be worth it. When you're taking 4+ jetbikes, 5 points per model starts getting pretty expensive! And while the haywire blasts will be great against certain armies (esp. Knights, non-jinking tanks, and other walkers), I think they may be too situational to be a TAC choice. Think about something like Grey Knights or Tyranids - S4 small blasts are going to be useless, whereas a Shuriken Cannon would be quite good. Plus, against any army with skimmers, it'll be too easy to jink off the 2-3 hits you are going to get off the small blasts, so Dark Eldar, Crons and CWE will probably just shrug them off.

I'm kind of excited about the skyweavers. On the one hand it sort of sucks that you won't have any "cheap" members of the squad to tank hits. But on the other - you've got a 24 inch haywire weapon on a platform that moves 12 inches, and can move in the assault phase!

You're right that this is less effective against jinking targets - sure - but what isn't? Park yourself near some LoS blocking terrain and dare all the land raiders to come near you.

Also just saw a photo of this weekend's White Dwarf. The Starweaver looks amazing. There was also a photo of a page with the Solitaire we've already seen but also a new Death Jester and new Shadowseer. I'd want to try and incorporate those guys in too!!

I'm hoping the death jester is like a ranged version of the solitaire, one per army with a rediculous gun! The new fluff has started saying they "stand apart" from the other Harlequin...

I hope his gun is ridiculous. And I hope he has a unit to run with. Previously he was kind of an odd duck. I mean, if you are like me when you read his rules in the Eldar Codex you were like, "Finally I can add a shurikan cannon to my assault unit!" <----Said no one ever.

The Shadowseer I'm a lot more excited about. I've been using a converted shadowseer as a farseer for years - and I'd love to be able to give veil of tears to some regular eldar units - or just imagine. What if they could take wargear similar to the regular eldar codex? Maybe we could put the seer on a jetbike and run him with some skyweavers. Crazier things have happened right? Or is there no chance of that because there's no model?

I think the death jester will still get a shrieker cannon but either a souped up one or he will just have loads of special rules like a ranged version of the Solitaire.

Belac Ynnead wrote:
I hope his gun is ridiculous. And I hope he has a unit to run with. Previously he was kind of an odd duck. I mean, if you are like me when you read his rules in the Eldar Codex you were like, "Finally I can add a shurikan cannon to my assault unit!" <----Said no one ever.

The Shadowseer I'm a lot more excited about. I've been using a converted shadowseer as a farseer for years - and I'd love to be able to give veil of tears to some regular eldar units - or just imagine. What if they could take wargear similar to the regular eldar codex? Maybe we could put the seer on a jetbike and run him with some skyweavers. Crazier things have happened right? Or is there no chance of that because there's no model?

Technically there is no model for iron priest on thunder wolf or wolf priest on bike, but you can still make them.