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So I'm trying something slightly new in spirit of the new codex. I've yet to get any games under my belt so some critiques are welcome.

*A slight disclaimer*
I'm not looking for "bro do you even wraith" as currently I'm not looking for that play style. This list is a 7th ed. take on the AV WALL that I had enjoyed so much.

Combined Arms Detachment
HQ
230pts Catacomb Command Barge w/ warscythe, phylactery, phase shifter, the nightmare shroud and gauss cannon

TROOPS
235pts 10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark
235pts 10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark

HEAVY SUPPORTj
170pts Doomsday Ark
170pts Doomsday Ark

Judicator Battalion Formation
270pts 5 Triarch Praetorians w/ rod of covenant and Night Scythe
270pts 5 Triarch Praetorians w/ rod of covenant and Night Scythe
270pts 2 Triach Stalkers w/ twin-linked heavy gauss cannons

TOTAL PTS: 1850

*I gave the Pratorians Night Scythes so that they can benefit from the detachment rules. I'm aware as of right now they technically can not ride in them but buffing them to kill flyers/fmc is nice.

List looks fine as is, but it's a really low model count for a points game of this size. and you've got your CC units off the board. They will most likely not see combat till Turn 3 unless they get charged. No worries on running w/o Wraiths.

The Triarch Stalkers are great, but you're not really bringing enough shooting to take advantage of the BS 5.

I know you're trying to go with a 'mech' force, but are you opposed to running a unit on the ground? If you aren't, I'd combine the Praetorians into 1 Unit, then Drop that Nightscythe and 1 Stalker to get a Unit of Warriors. A unit on foot sandwiched between the 2 GA's will really take advantage of their repair ability. It's something you're not using until the Warriors inside get out, or in the rare situation where they actually get hit with a flamer. This would also give you another unit on the ground to take advantage of the Triarch Stalker.

That list is cock diesel as *uck.

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Akar wrote:List looks fine as is, but it's a really low model count for a points game of this size. and you've got your CC units off the board. They will most likely not see combat till Turn 3 unless they get charged. No worries on running w/o Wraiths.

The Triarch Stalkers are great, but you're not really bringing enough shooting to take advantage of the BS 5.

I know you're trying to go with a 'mech' force, but are you opposed to running a unit on the ground? If you aren't, I'd combine the Praetorians into 1 Unit, then Drop that Nightscythe and 1 Stalker to get a Unit of Warriors. A unit on foot sandwiched between the 2 GA's will really take advantage of their repair ability. It's something you're not using until the Warriors inside get out, or in the rare situation where they actually get hit with a flamer. This would also give you another unit on the ground to take advantage of the Triarch Stalker.

The praetorians as is have to walk currently. If I run them as 10 then I lose access to the formation. With the stalkers running 2 allows me to extend the bubble out farther as vehicle squadrons can be 4" apart which helps my army from bunching up too much.

I see the point where model count is low. Traditionally that is the trade off for mech. While I'm not opposed to the warrior blob plus ark in a mech force. I'm unsure how to get it while keeping the judacator battalion or losing my only reliable AA.

dominuschao wrote:That list is cock diesel as *uck.

I admit I had to google that phrase . But I do appreciate a creative compliment thank you lol.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

The praetorians as is have to walk currently. If I run them as 10 then I lose access to the formation. With the stalkers running 2 allows me to extend the bubble out farther as vehicle squadrons can be 4" apart which helps my army from bunching up too much.

I see the point where model count is low. Traditionally that is the trade off for mech. While I'm not opposed to the warrior blob plus ark in a mech force. I'm unsure how to get it while keeping the judacator battalion or losing my only reliable AA.

I get that. What are you really gaining by taking the Formation though? Yes, you have the 4" gap for additional coverage, but what are you giving the bonus to? I count 4 Arks, that would need to be covered? That formation bonus allows everything shooting at that unit to be twin linked right? I'm counting the 2 Templates, and ~40 shots benefiting from that at BS5? Not questioning the tactic, but how effective are you hoping it will be at this point level? You are fairly well protected, and will retain most of that shooting which is impressive.

I'm not sure what flyers would be afraid of this list. Odds are against you if you go first, and the 2 Flyers that are a threat (that I see) are going to deliver their payload before getting popped in most cases. At least that's been my experience.

It sounds like you know what you're doing which is fine. I was just suggesting that you might have more success if you just drop to a CAD, that's all. I'm very interested in watching how Praetorians come out in this edition, as I have no plans to get any. Jump Infantry out of the Flyers is HUGE as far as being able to threaten someone, or deliver some nice AP shots exactly where you want/need them.

 Akar wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

The praetorians as is have to walk currently. If I run them as 10 then I lose access to the formation. With the stalkers running 2 allows me to extend the bubble out farther as vehicle squadrons can be 4" apart which helps my army from bunching up too much.

I see the point where model count is low. Traditionally that is the trade off for mech. While I'm not opposed to the warrior blob plus ark in a mech force. I'm unsure how to get it while keeping the judacator battalion or losing my only reliable AA.

I get that. What are you really gaining by taking the Formation though? Yes, you have the 4" gap for additional coverage, but what are you giving the bonus to? I count 4 Arks, that would need to be covered? That formation bonus allows everything shooting at that unit to be twin linked right? I'm counting the 2 Templates, and ~40 shots benefiting from that at BS5? Not questioning the tactic, but how effective are you hoping it will be at this point level? You are fairly well protected, and will retain most of that shooting which is impressive.

I'm not sure what flyers would be afraid of this list. Odds are against you if you go first, and the 2 Flyers that are a threat (that I see) are going to deliver their payload before getting popped in most cases. At least that's been my experience.

It sounds like you know what you're doing which is fine. I was just suggesting that you might have more success if you just drop to a CAD, that's all. I'm very interested in watching how Praetorians come out in this edition, as I have no plans to get any. Jump Infantry out of the Flyers is HUGE as far as being able to threaten someone, or deliver some nice AP shots exactly where you want/need them.

The BS5 effect only helps non-vehicles but is just an ability of the Stalkers. Its a nice effect for the Warriors in Arks but isn't their primary purpose. The real purpose is as a formation they allow me to pick one enemy unit in LOS of a Stalker a turn and reroll To Hit, To Wound and Armor Penetration for the whole Formation. This means the Stalkers better pop heavy armor at range or the Praetorians better kill or the Night Scythes dogfight better or the combine to mash something together like a Knight. As you need a Stalker to use this effect you should take probably 2 to prevent lucky shots from ending the formation.

I do see Praetorians in Scythes to be a big boon if they get FAQ‘d to be allowed to ride in their dedicated transports. I intend on using them to smash heavy infantry off late game objectives or just being mobile close range gun platforms in Maelstrom games.

This list is deceptive. Its not the norm but it puts down a whopping 7 av13 chassis with 5 being jinking skimmers. Plus quite a mass of ap1-2 with several reaching much further than the normal 24" cron threat range. Its also got a healthy amount of gauss fire and really good AA to boot due to the formations interaction with the night scythes.

Speaking of which I feel this may be the only instance where night scythes do anti tank better than doom scythes which is pretty cool. This is really what makes the list IMO. Without that synergy I would probably agree with the sentiment for a CAD.

The praetorians are pretty flexible overall even without the ability to embark. They are mobile, fairly durable and can perform counter assault or even deep strike if needed, making them like a termicide-lite type unit. Not the worst you could do for 140 pts. If theres any wiggle room here it would probably be in a ghost ark. In that case I would consider bumping both praetorians to 7 strong taking them into a more serious threat range.

It's still worth the exercise of taking this concept and porting it into a CAD just to see what you get with less restrictions. In that instance though I would make the night scythes into doom scythes.

That said the list achieves its purpose of av13 saturation and covers most if not all the bases without going cookie cutter or appearing waac or broken. I dig it.

Thank you

I am still considering a CAD. And I considered a Doom Scythe or even a Monolith. Likely if I dropped down to a CAD I would beef up 1 Praetorian squad to 6 or 8 and look to fit in some Destroyers to make use of the Stalkers.

Right now I'm in the fence with either keeping the Heavy Gauss Cannon or Heat Ray. The Cannon allows me to engage 1st turn but is a little specialized and is one shot. The Ray is more versatile but will likely not be firing until turn 2. Which means if I got 1st turn I would only have Doomsday Arks doing anything significant.

Also I've considered Caster and Blade Praetorians. But only because I currently have 10 of those and am not super keen on picking up 10 more (the void blade it too hard to remove without damage).

I've also considered 10 sword n board lychguard in a scythe instead of praetorians.

I am still considering a CAD. And I considered a Doom Scythe or even a Monolith. Likely if I dropped down to a CAD I would beef up 1 Praetorian squad to 6 or 8 and look to fit in some Destroyers to make use of the Stalkers.

Right now I'm in the fence with either keeping the Heavy Gauss Cannon or Heat Ray. The Cannon allows me to engage 1st turn but is a little specialized and is one shot. The Ray is more versatile but will likely not be firing until turn 2. Which means if I got 1st turn I would only have Doomsday Arks doing anything significant.

Also I've considered Caster and Blade Praetorians. But only because I currently have 10 of those and am not super keen on picking up 10 more (the void blade it too hard to remove without damage).

I've also considered 10 sword n board lychguard in a scythe instead of praetorians.

Thats kinda what I was thinking as well. I'd love to see more lychguard lists floating around.

So I just ran some numbers using your concept and honestly I think your on to something here with the judicator + scythes. I'm having trouble finding something significantly better (or even at all) from a normal CAD. At least in the context of what your shooting for.

Instead how about changing the stalkers to heat rays, dropping 1 DD ark and iwnd for 4 x 1 hvy destroyers? (2 FA 2 HS). They're non mech so they can take advantage of the stalkers buffs and bring some MSU to the list. Meanwhile the heat rays are shorter range but twice the shots at ap1 with reroll everything. Goes a long way to making melta range less essential.

I'm not personally sold on HVY Destroyers right now. Numbers wise they are better at AV11-13 and the same for AV14 as Destroyers. But far less efficient at MEQ and below. Which frankly Necrons have a harder time with good armor saves then armor values.

Yah the shots on the heat ray are solid but the range kills me. As 24" weapons put the Stalker in the AO of its biggest threat, CC.

Fair enough. I was actually thinking more about MCs than anti tank duty but I hadn't considered gauss' effect.

Tinkering I've come up with a more flyer oriented list, but I suspect it will deviate too far from the theme you're looking for.

CCB + Solar Staff + Phylactery + Phase Shifter 190

Immortals x5 + Night Scythe 215
Immortals x5 + Night Scythe 215

Annihilation Barge 120
Annihilation Barge 120
Annihilation Barge 120

Deathbringer Flight
Doomscythe 170
Doomscythe 170

Judicator Battalion
Praetorians x5 140
Praetorians x5 140
Triarch Stalker x2 250

dominuschao wrote:Fair enough. I was actually thinking more about MCs than anti tank duty but I hadn't considered gauss' effect.

Hmmm....you know I haven't given much thought about MCs. I might need to do some tinkering. Do you think caster and blade praetorians would work for that job better then rods?

God In Action wrote:Tinkering I've come up with a more flyer oriented list, but I suspect it will deviate too far from the theme you're looking for.

CCB + Solar Staff + Phylactery + Phase Shifter 190

Immortals x5 + Night Scythe 215
Immortals x5 + Night Scythe 215

Annihilation Barge 120
Annihilation Barge 120
Annihilation Barge 120

Deathbringer Flight
Doomscythe 170
Doomscythe 170

Judicator Battalion
Praetorians x5 140
Praetorians x5 140
Triarch Stalker x2 250

It does deviate too much lol. I think you may want to drop the Annibaeges. Given that they increased the points, nerfed the tesla rule and removed arc, Annibarges are honestly not very good.

You would be much better off giving those praetorians NS to make use of the formations effects and then taking some destroyers.

You could drop the 3 annibarges and add 2 NS and 2 H. Destroyers.

IMO the rods are better all around except against mech. If you face much tau/gk/eldar among other things the hvy Ds will come in handy since only the praetorians have ap2 in any volume but it's short ranged and low strength. Some more hvy gauss would go a long way I think although I don't know your meta so it may not be needed. Destroyers would also be welcome but the judicators cover that roll well enough since points are tight.

Right now I have no meta as I just moved back to my home state having lived in another for the last 3 years. So I kinda have to aim for all comers more then anything.

I feel like rods are more TAC then caster n blade. But heat ray is also likely more TAC too. If I dropped heavy gauss from the stalkers I'd likely drop the phylactery and shroud from the bargelord, which could buy me 1 H destroyer.

I agree the rods are the better of the two options.

Losing the nightmare shroud I'm not sure is worth the trade off. Without it you can't tank as effectively and thats what really makes the CCB a pain in the arse.

Heat rays you did make some good points on the range. 24" sucks especially on walking anythings. Dreads being case in point.
Of course in this instance your multimelta equivalents are much more effective at 24" probably close to double plus double the shots so if something does get into range like imperial knights or what have you they are gonna regret it.
On the other hand the worst of those MCs that need higher strength answers can operate beyond 2 feet.

I like the list as is quite a bit personally. However I could see some real benefit from changing one DD ark into 4 hvy destroyers simply for the flexibility and multiple shots. Maybe run it as is though and go from there.

Between 1850 to 2000 I would go all in on some form of Destroyers.

I'm probably going to run destroyers in the list from time to time. I've got 5 Destroyers but no Heavys. Kind of holding out for plastic ones right now lol.

I do think you have a good point either way.

Maybe 1 less Night Scythe drop the Phylactery an run 2 Destroyers and 1 Heavy as a squad for a TAC set up.

Numbers wise they are better at AV11-13 and the same for AV14 as Destroyers.

Hmm, well, they will actually push Pens through on AV14, so their damage will be a little more valuable. They are also considerably better against high T, and the extra 12" of range is a real boon for their survivability. Personally, while I don't hate Destroyers, I find myself only taking them in the formation where I have to. Otherwise, it's all HD all the time.


I've also been leaning towards VB/PC TPs if taken in the formation, and Rod TPs if taken otherwise. The re-rolls from the formation make VB/PC TPs particularly nasty.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Judicator Battalion Formation
270pts 5 Triarch Praetorians w/ rod of covenant and Night Scythe
270pts 5 Triarch Praetorians w/ rod of covenant and Night Scythe
270pts 2 Triach Stalkers w/ twin-linked heavy gauss cannons

TOTAL PTS: 1850

*I gave the Pratorians Night Scythes so that they can benefit from the detachment rules. I'm aware as of right now they technically can not ride in them but buffing them to kill flyers/fmc is nice.

After re-reading the rules, I didn't think about the Nightscythes benefiting from the Stalkers. I've been trying to find a reason to even run this formation, as I have no intention of getting Praetorians at this time. Going to have to at least try it, dropping to two units out and using them with the guns on the NS might be worth taking.

I have yet to play test the list so I can't say for certain if its effective. I will probably play a few games with the list and try it with no NS and add destroyers to see if the reduction in dedicated anti flyer/FMC hurts the list at all.