Can we expect a DE Wych Cult Supplement?

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**SweaterKittens**

Hey all,

So I was flipping through my DE codex the other day, building a small list for my FLGS. It occurred to me that with the new Covens supplement, there's only one real 'gap' left in the DE armories/formation, and that being wargear and formations for Wych Cults.

Here's my thought. You have three main HQ's that represent the three sects of Commoragh. You have the Archon, who represents the Kabalites. He already gets all the fancy gear in the vanilla codex, has the option to take a retinue, etc. Kabals are pretty well-represented and equipped in the vanilla codex. Then you have the Homunculus, who is somewhat lacking in wargear options, but with the addition of the Covens supplement has access to his own 'advanced' wargear (Diabolical Playthings). It also gives you an updated Power from Pain table, and several formations to make the most of your freakshow. Now the last HQ is the Succubus, who is, much like the stock Homunculus, pretty lacking in wargear and options. Aside from the Archite Glaive (great) and other Wych Weapons (not so great), there's nothing really to choose from. Combine that with the fact that Wyches are now the worst units in the codex (in a codex that has very good internal balance, if I might say). It would seem like a Wych Cult supplement would round out the codex, fill in the wargear gaps that the Succubus is currently lacking, and potentially make some good formations regarding Wyches and their other Arena brothers and sisters such as Hellions and Reavers.

However, I'm biased since I love Wyches, Wych Cults, Reavers, Succubi, etc, and I would love to see them become more viable and get some fun options like Covens lists currently have. So I'm wondering if I'm just seeing evidence where I want to see it, or if there is actually potential (or possibly even an intention) for a supplement in the future.

Points towards yes:
- Wyches are the most underpowered unit in the codex and lacking in options
- Bloodbrides are somehow worse than Wyches and take the torch from Mandrakes in the "Why would you ever take this unit" competition
- Succubi are the only HQ severely lacking in wargear
- No real support for Wych lists or Combat Drugs now that Duke Sliscus has been removed
- GW has released several Wych Cult themed army boxes

Points towards no:
- GW has never had any issue with leaving gaps in their range before
- GW isn't very concerned with balance
- DE have already received a supplement, and 'one supplement per faction' seems to be the theme currently.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.

**melkorthetonedeaf**

(Grabs her magic 8ball) hmmmmm.... hopefully yes, though it seems so unlikely.

**Steelmage99**

If GW had any consistency in their games design philosophy, it would seem likely.
Considering how incompetent the Games Designers seem to be, your best bet would be the 8-ball approach mentioned above.

**koooaei**

It'd probably look like Kharn Butcher horde.

Lots of wytches that get a benefit if they roll a right number on the charge.

**vipoid**

What are you talking about? We did get a Wych supplement.

Some idiot at GW just mislabelled it 'Harlequins'.

**Wulfmar**

I'm sure it exists somewhere in Fulgrims magazine collection.

I'd prefer a Kabal dataslate personally based on Sliscus and Malys, but Wyches is still preferable to the Covens (I'm really not a fan of the direction that army goes)

**SweaterKittens**

melkorthetonedeaf wrote:(Grabs her magic 8ball) hmmmmm.... hopefully yes, though it seems so unlikely.

Yeah, that's sort of how I was (and am) feeling. I was hoping that someone more experienced and knowledgeable than myself could either get my hopes up or shut me down xD

koooaei wrote:It'd probably look like Kharn Butcher horde.

Lots of wytches that get a benefit if they roll a right number on the charge.

Even if it was something silly like that, I'd just appreciate having more options. With Archons and now Homunculi, the options are there if you want to go balls-out and kit them. With a Succubus you take an Archite Glaive and you're pretty much maxed out. None of the artifacts do anything special and you're still as survivable as wet toilet paper.

vipoid wrote:What are you talking about? We did get a Wych supplement.

Some idiot at GW just mislabelled it 'Harlequins'.

HA. Using a succubus as a counts-as Solitaire, and Wyches as counts-as Harlequins could make for a cool, elite Wych squad, actually

Wulfmar wrote:I'm sure it exists somewhere in Fulgrims magazine collection.

I'd prefer a Kabal dataslate personally based on Sliscus and Malys, but Wyches is still preferable to the Covens (I'm really not a fan of the direction that army goes)

I'd tend to agree with you, as I'd love to see the Duke and friends back. Although I do think Kabals are already pretty well represented, what with Archons being the most viable and option-heavy HQ. A few kabal-based formations would be nice though. And I'm in the same boat with you as far as Covens, I've never really liked the freak show/circus thing they aim for.

**vipoid**

SweaterKittens wrote:

HA. Using a succubus as a counts-as Solitaire, and Wyches as counts-as Harlequins could make for a cool, elite Wych squad, actually

That was my thought, too.

Although, I'd say the Solitaire is what Lelith should be.

**SweaterKittens**

vipoid wrote:
SweaterKittens wrote:

HA. Using a succubus as a counts-as Solitaire, and Wyches as counts-as Harlequins could make for a cool, elite Wych squad, actually

That was my thought, too.

Although, I'd say the Solitaire is what Lelith should be.

I don't think Lelith is particularly bad, and now that she costs less than she did in the last edition (same with Drazhar) I think the fact that assault isn't very good in this edition is the only thing that's holding her back from being a real monster.

**vipoid**

SweaterKittens wrote:

I don't think Lelith is particularly bad, and now that she costs less than she did in the last edition (same with Drazhar) I think the fact that assault isn't very good in this edition is the only thing that's holding her back from being a real monster.

I disagree - I think she's still awful. She might not be as bad (if only because she's cheaper), but she still suffers from the same fatal flaw - S3 attacks are not useful. Also, she's working hard to outdo Urien in their game of 'who can have the worst Warlord trait'.

Really though, I just don't see any reason why you'd want to use her. You can get a basic Succubus with a Glaive who basically does the same thing, but for 2/3 of the cost of Lelith. I'd use a Solitaire as Lelith because Succubi are perfectly usable at the moment - Lelith is far less so.

Also, since you brought him up, Drazhar is abysmal. You know that 95pt succubus I just mentioned? Assuming average rolls, Drazhar loses to her. So, why am I paying 180pts for a beatstick character who can't even beat my 95pt beatstick? To make matters worse, he can only join Incubi squads.

There was a poll a while ago on TheDarkCity, asking if people would use Drazhar if his point cost was halved. I believe the consensus was 'no' (mainly because his 'can only join incubi' rule was just too limiting).

**melkorthetonedeaf**

Why is there such a crazy jump in effectiveness from S3 to S4? It's just one more!

I would devour a Wych cult supplement if they made it.

**vipoid**

melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
Why is there such a crazy jump in effectiveness from S3 to S4? It's just one more!

Well, S4 is hardly amazing (especially on a dedicated melee unit), but it's markedly better than S3.

In terms of why, against T4 if you have S4 then half of your attacks will wound, whereas only 1/3 of them will wound if you're S3. So, assuming you're hitting on 3s, with S4 you'll need 3 attacks for every wound you want to inflict. For S3, you'll need 4.5. Basically, S3 creates a diminishing-returns situation - you end up needing a ludicrous number of attacks to inflict a reasonable number of wounds.

**SweaterKittens**

vipoid wrote:
SweaterKittens wrote:

I don't think Lelith is particularly bad, and now that she costs less than she did in the last edition (same with Drazhar) I think the fact that assault isn't very good in this edition is the only thing that's holding her back from being a real monster.

I disagree - I think she's still awful. She might not be as bad (if only because she's cheaper), but she still suffers from the same fatal flaw - S3 attacks are not useful. Also, she's working hard to outdo Urien in their game of 'who can have the worst Warlord trait'.

Really though, I just don't see any reason why you'd want to use her. You can get a basic Succubus with a Glaive who basically does the same thing, but for 2/3 of the cost of Lelith. I'd use a Solitaire as Lelith because Succubi are perfectly usable at the moment - Lelith is far less so.

Also, since you brought him up, Drazhar is abysmal. You know that 95pt succubus I just mentioned? Assuming average rolls, Drazhar loses to her. So, why am I paying 180pts for a beatstick character who can't even beat my 95pt beatstick? To make matters worse, he can only join Incubi squads.

There was a poll a while ago on TheDarkCity, asking if people would use Drazhar if his point cost was halved. I believe the consensus was 'no' (mainly because his 'can only join incubi' rule was just too limiting).

Well that's resoundingly disappointing, but if anything it just drives the point home that we could use a better supplement to give us more options. I mean hell, at least Urien got a buff in the sense that units that benefitted from his presence all got some fun toys and formations in the Covens supplement. Such a shame too, Lelith's model is just excellent. The same can't be said for Drazhar, but he's a cool character, and I hate to see codexes with any units that you would question taking even in a casual game.