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Hey all, so I've been a dedicated 40K player for the past few years, but have always had the inkling of interest in Fantasy. We have a solid group in our area for BOTH versions of Warhammer. I play strictly Orks in 40K, and am interested in starting up an Orc & Goblin army. A store in my state is having a 40% off sale on Fantasy stuff, so I could get the book and a good selection of minis for a damn solid price. But, my only issue is, we have no idea where the game is going right now. What GW plans on doing AFTER the end times. And while I could get a solid deal now, I'm more worried my investment might become moot or impacted heavily by whatever they intend to do.

Would you, as seasoned Fantasy players, recommend waiting, or say screw it and play now and just play as it is now, no matter what happens with the game?

Though to be fair, my Ork army is not quite done either...so investing in this takes funds from that as well as painting time. Still no idea where I'm going to store a second army either x.x

Yeah, I'd hold my breath until this summer.

I would definitely wait.

9th might be good, but I fear GW will really screw the pooch this time.

Yeah, that's my big worry. I don't want to invest in an army only to have it be totally useless or not even useable or be subjected to 'mercenary' status. The game seems fun and all but...too many worries in my boat.

I'm no seasoned player, but I'd say it's a good time for caution as well. Though Orcs and Goblins are pretty core, so I'm guessing if you do choose them, they're one of the safer bets.

But caution is best.

Fantasy feels like a minefield right now XD Don't wanna make a wrong step!

Id wait, because if there's a major uproar you can get a bunch of cheap models from people dumping them on eBay

 More Dakka wrote:
Id wait, because if there's a major uproar you can get a bunch of cheap models from people dumping them on eBay

That's true too.

Start buying and painting your army slowly. When 9th ed show up, you can start to be serious going into WFB.

I don't want to be just pessimistic, as a 'hater', but this is honestly where I see 9th going.

GW wants to maintain its high price 'qaulity' marketing strategy, so Fantasy has to have smaller break in levels for play.

Store kids and their parents cant afford a fantasy army, at current prices and lowering prices is against GW ethos. So the game isn't getting new blood, the answer from GW's perspective is to reduce the number of models needed for play, also to include more larger wierd stuff as that is what GW focuses its sales.

I think that it is not too large a stretch to say GW envisages 9th edtion more like Warmahordes. You get one or two large impressive models, 20-30 normal Warhammer fantassty models and 2-3 characters. Thats your 'army'. Rules will also be 'balanced' (sic) for those scale games, larger scale gaming might be an add on or seperate ruleset, but balance is likely to be worse than it is now due to the refocusing.

i really do have concerns that 9th will suck. I am not going to out and out say it will, there is hope. But it might end up like 4e D&D, with its own fans and some advantages but a huge let down for the larger gaming community.

My advice is wait and see, and don't invest now if not already into this game.

Melevolence wrote:
Hey all, so I've been a dedicated 40K player for the past few years, but have always had the inkling of interest in Fantasy. We have a solid group in our area for BOTH versions of Warhammer. I play strictly Orks in 40K, and am interested in starting up an Orc & Goblin army. A store in my state is having a 40% off sale on Fantasy stuff, so I could get the book and a good selection of minis for a damn solid price. But, my only issue is, we have no idea where the game is going right now. What GW plans on doing AFTER the end times. And while I could get a solid deal now, I'm more worried my investment might become moot or impacted heavily by whatever they intend to do.

Would you, as seasoned Fantasy players, recommend waiting, or say screw it and play now and just play as it is now, no matter what happens with the game?

Though to be fair, my Ork army is not quite done either...so investing in this takes funds from that as well as painting time. Still no idea where I'm going to store a second army either x.x

If 9th does end up blowing massive rodent gak, I'd be willing to bet that a good number of groups will simply continue to play 8th.

So really, there's probably little to no harm in at least grabbing up an 8th edition rulebook say on ebay, and then building up 1000pts or so of O&G's. Worst case scenario, your local group can just keep playing 8th and ignore 9th entirely.

If you are going to adapt to the new edition then wait.

However, the group i game with decided that if 9th proves true and completely screws up everything, we will be happy to stay back in 8th. If you think you'd just stick with 8th along with anyone you play then I see no problem in starting.

Honestly, GW probably will screw it up somehow, but its nothing different from 40k. With fantasy heating up with the new edition and end times stuff, I would say if your fantasy side has players, go all in and get yourself some stuff. The only problem is, I would go to do something different. You might get burnt out painting lots of orcs. If you like hordes though, you might like skaven, especially as they have just been given their end times book and models.

Hope this helps!

 Orlanth wrote:
I don't want to be just pessimistic, as a 'hater', but this is honestly where I see 9th going.

GW wants to maintain its high price 'qaulity' marketing strategy, so Fantasy has to have smaller break in levels for play.

Store kids and their parents cant afford a fantasy army, at current prices and lowering prices is against GW ethos. So the game isn't getting new blood, the answer from GW's perspective is to reduce the number of models needed for play, also to include more larger wierd stuff as that is what GW focuses its sales.

I think that it is not too large a stretch to say GW envisages 9th edtion more like Warmahordes. You get one or two large impressive models, 20-30 normal Warhammer fantassty models and 2-3 characters. Thats your 'army'. Rules will also be 'balanced' (sic) for those scale games, larger scale gaming might be an add on or seperate ruleset, but balance is likely to be worse than it is now due to the refocusing.

i really do have concerns that 9th will suck. I am not going to out and out say it will, there is hope. But it might end up like 4e D&D, with its own fans and some advantages but a huge let down for the larger gaming community.

My advice is wait and see, and don't invest now if not already into this game.

So you're saying that GW will cut their sales drastically?

How many people are buying IoB to this date?

Making a game more like warmahordes will attract younger players. But it will drive the existing fanbase away. This will result in less sales.

I know that GW don't care about their customer's feelings, but when it comes to business, the clue is in the company's title.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So you're saying that GW will cut their sales drastically?

How many people are buying IoB to this date?

Making a game more like warmahordes will attract younger players. But it will drive the existing fanbase away. This will result in less sales.

I know that GW don't care about their customer's feelings, but when it comes to business, the clue is in the company's title.

This. These sorts of Doom-and-Gloom / the-Sky-is-Falling rumours come up every edition change, and 90% of it always turns out to be utter crap and the game sails along smoothly as before. GW isn't going to alienate the bulk of its existing playerbase in exchange for a new set of players that may or may not ever materialize. Whatever happens, the game will be designed to include those of us who have stuck around buying models for decades.


As to whether you should buy...well. That's a much trickier question. Assuming (as I am) that the game will remain *largely* unchanged, there still WILL be changes which will necessarily affect the sorts of units you'll want to take. Just as 8th edition made infantry more viable (...for a little while, until monster cav came about), so too will 9th change what everyone will run.

However a 40% off sale is a pretty big deal. I'd jump all over that. Keep in mind that if you're a creative modeller then you can make just about any model work for conversions. The excess tomb guard models I no longer use have become my black knights, for instance. Bits of the carrion I hate are now on other models. A savvy modeller can find a use for everything, and 40% off is a solid deal.

Don't go too crazy though. Stick to plastic kits, with metal/finecast for characters only (since these seem to be the kits GW is moving away from). Try to fill out your core, as that's always the best place to start with fantasy (you need lots of it, and if you don't start on the boring stuff you'll never finish).

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I don't want to be just pessimistic, as a 'hater', but this is honestly where I see 9th going.

GW wants to maintain its high price 'qaulity' marketing strategy, so Fantasy has to have smaller break in levels for play.

Store kids and their parents cant afford a fantasy army, at current prices and lowering prices is against GW ethos. So the game isn't getting new blood, the answer from GW's perspective is to reduce the number of models needed for play, also to include more larger wierd stuff as that is what GW focuses its sales.

I think that it is not too large a stretch to say GW envisages 9th edtion more like Warmahordes. You get one or two large impressive models, 20-30 normal Warhammer fantassty models and 2-3 characters. Thats your 'army'. Rules will also be 'balanced' (sic) for those scale games, larger scale gaming might be an add on or seperate ruleset, but balance is likely to be worse than it is now due to the refocusing.

i really do have concerns that 9th will suck. I am not going to out and out say it will, there is hope. But it might end up like 4e D&D, with its own fans and some advantages but a huge let down for the larger gaming community.

My advice is wait and see, and don't invest now if not already into this game.

So you're saying that GW will cut their sales drastically?

How many people are buying IoB to this date?

Making a game more like warmahordes will attract younger players. But it will drive the existing fanbase away. This will result in less sales.

I know that GW don't care about their customer's feelings, but when it comes to business, the clue is in the company's title.

1. I said nothing about it cutting sales. The move will increase sales but almost exclusively of new customers.
2. The problems will be that Warhammer Fantasy will likely suck.

You have to look at GW's business model, it is retail based and therefore gets customers the gaming industry normally doesn't get, and the vast majority of the intro market. Gw wants to preserve the intro market and therefore needs intro friendly games. With their current price strategy GW feel that Warhammer is not intro friendly, it requires too much investment to buy an army, so what I am hearing is that 9th will be on a smaller scale and involve large kewl models as focus. at the expense of massed units.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

This. These sorts of Doom-and-Gloom / the-Sky-is-Falling rumours come up every edition change, and 90% of it always turns out to be utter crap and the game sails along smoothly as before. GW isn't going to alienate the bulk of its existing playerbase in exchange for a new set of players that may or may not ever materialize. Whatever happens, the game will be designed to include those of us who have stuck around buying models for decades..

You were QFT a pozst that completely misread what is in turn was quoting.

Besides GW has already alienated the bulk of its existing playerbase in exchange fro a new set of players. GW's business model is the intro market, mostly teens and new gamers. Veteran gamers find their way into other games or continue to play Gw, veteran gamers are therefore from GW's perspective an unstable market, new kids are the lock in market as noone else has mainstream retail presence but GW.

As fro how they have alienated existing playerbase. Shall we form a list:
- Codex changes, with alarming frequency.
- Bad rules.
- Bad pricing policies
- Bad international pricing policies esp Australia.

Not everyone hates every edition of codex, but likewise not everyone likes them either. The game doesnt get improved over the editions much, there are always changes to be made and imbalances to iron out. Most game systems have it mostly right by their second edition. Warhammer fantasy has had eight and is still unbalanced.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

As to whether you should buy...well. That's a much trickier question. Assuming (as I am) that the game will remain *largely* unchanged,

We can stop here. Your advice has dropped off the deep end. Remember that the advice here depends on whether someone sinks a fair amount of cash into the game, so it pays to guess smart.

The game will be largely and radically changed. For example:

- Lustria is gone, in fact it has been confirmed that six races will be available at start and lizards aren't one of them.
- Bretonnia is also gone in the fluff
- The elf factions have been amalgamated. factions as diverse as Dark Elves and High Elves are now to some extent 'the same'.

While the OP is after orcs the idea that the game will be largely unchanged is ridiculous. Some special characters are already gone, unit types might no0t be simuilar to what we had before. It cant be predicted.

The best description for 9th will be 'expect the game to have so many changes the effects are unpredictable and any guesswork as to content is likely to be effectively random. The only sensible thing a new customer to the franchise to do is either commit to playing 8th or wait and see.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

there still WILL be changes which will necessarily affect the sorts of units you'll want to take. Just as 8th edition made infantry more viable (...for a little while, until monster cav came about), so too will 9th change what everyone will run.

That would be a good enough reason to wait on its own. O a whole the general advice befroe a new codex comes out is not to buy in but wait fro release. 9th is expected to deal major changes to each faction and the game the stock advice of waiting is therefore sound.

I would hold off and wait... Keep working on that 40k army

Lots of responses :p

Thank you all so far. I've always had an interest in Fantasy due to how broad the O&G army is compared to 40k. Especially with how Squigs and Goblins(grots) actually have uses outside of fluff or being a subpar unit or not even existing for play at all.

I suppose my biggest issue is I'm at a crossroad of if I start, do I want to play majority Orcs, majority Goblins, or an even mix.

Anyone have advice on that front at least? Do they mingle well or should one focus on one over the other? I'd rather not invest as much into this army as I did 40k, for obvious reasons.

Depends how you want to build. Generally gobos are considered point for point more effective, but the O&G army strength is in sillyness & warmachines, not blocks of combat orcs.

Melevolence wrote:
Lots of responses :p

Thank you all so far. I've always had an interest in Fantasy due to how broad the O&G army is compared to 40k. Especially with how Squigs and Goblins(grots) actually have uses outside of fluff or being a subpar unit or not even existing for play at all.

I suppose my biggest issue is I'm at a crossroad of if I start, do I want to play majority Orcs, majority Goblins, or an even mix.

Anyone have advice on that front at least? Do they mingle well or should one focus on one over the other? I'd rather not invest as much into this army as I did 40k, for obvious reasons.

Majority orcs works best. Gobbos work, the troubler is gobbos have crap leadership, even if they are steadfast they are testing against crap leadership so they still run if beat and wont rally. Still unlike most armeis orcs wont care so you can have sacrifical gobbos run away and ifno other gobbos are near not worry about it.

You need an orc as general, a good block of orcs as the anchor in your line. The artillery is very good and you can have some nasty support units. After that you still have points spare for a wall of gobbos.

In terms of balance balance the point investment heavily towards orcs, then balance the numbers back towards goblins. You can have a fair few gobbos for very few points.

Tip: Buy old core boxsets.

6th edition boxsts are cheap and you get a boar rider boss, 16 orcs with two choppas, 16 orcs with bows and a chariot, plus some humies.
7th edition yields a night goblin boss, a night goblin shaman, 2x 20 night goblin spearmen (you will likely want to amalgamate those units, 20 night goblin archers, a troll, and 10 spider riders.

You can pick up those even now fairly cheaply and build a core of your army for very little. I would still strongly recommend you wait, but with a cheap way in and a few lucky auction purchases you can buy in O&G at very little cost and see how it goes.

I certainly wouldn't be paying full retail at this time. The game might change so much its a dodgy investment.