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Ultramarines - 1000

Librarian - 65
- Force Staff

Ordo Xeno Inquisitor - 25

Scout Squad - 60
- 5 Scouts
- Space Marine Shotguns
- Meltabombs

Scout Squad - 75
- 5 Scouts
- Sniper Rifles
- Camo Cloaks

Tactical Squad - 200
- 10 Space Marines
- Plasma Gun
- Combi-plasma
- Rhino

Mortis Dreadnought - 125
- Two Twin-linked Autocannons

Assault Squad - 95
- 5 Space Marines
- 2 Flamers
- Drop Pod

Bike Squad - 125
- 5 Space Marine Bikers
- 2 Meltaguns

Bike Squad - 135
- 5 Space Marine Bikers
- 2 Grav-guns

Predator - 95
- Heavy Bolters

So i adjusted my list to be more competitive, i'm looking at how to improve it more. Your advice and recommendations are greatly appreciated

What is the point of Shotgun Scouts, Inquisitor and Assault Squad? These all seem like things that can be cut in favor of a Stormtalon or Sternguard. And why a Staff instead of a Sword on the Librarian? I'd also give him a bike. Slap him in with the Grav squad and casting Smite all over the place. I really like Smite on low point game Librarians.

Why smite instead of psychic shriek and a chance at invisibility?

Invisibility needs 2 to go off. With a single Mastery Level... I have found I have to throw five dice to reliably get Invisibility off. But that's reliably every turn. It would benefit if the Librarian was on a bike with one of the bike squads, but there just isn't enough dice readily available.

Smite gives a chance for Endurance, which has helped me in close combat units time and time again while Smite itself reliably gives me a decent couple of kills. And since I play Scream needing a roll to hit on a single die, it isn't as reliable as four AP2 strikes.

Drop the inquisitor, make the librarian level 2. Smite is alright, but psychic shriek, even rolling to hit, is generally better, seeing as it ignores cover on top of armor saves.

The real killer of smite is the s4. If it had been s5, maybe, but after seeing psychic shriek murder a riptide...

I have 2 questions: Why ultramarines? Why not white scars? Your not really utilizing ultramarines tactics. Having a bike squad with the lib at lvl 2 I agree with. I would either change to white scars or if you want ultramarines then take out the melta bikes, assault squad and maybe pred. Try to add another tac squad and las cannon devastator squad.

Would This List be better?


Iron Hands - 1000

Librarian - 110
- Force Staff
- Psyker Mastery Level 2
- Space Marine Bike

Scout Squad - 75
- 5 Scouts
- Sniper Rifles
- Camo Cloaks

Tactical Squad - 200
- 10 Space Marines
- Plasma Gun
- Combi-plasma
- Rhino

Mortis Dreadnought - 125
- Two Twin-linked Autocannons

Assault Squad - 95
- 5 Space Marines
- 2 Flamers
- Drop Pod

Bike Squad - 135
- 5 Space Marine Bikers
- 2 Meltaguns
- Combi-melta

Bike Squad - 145
- 5 Space Marine Bikers
- 2 Grav-guns
- Combi-grav

Predator - 115
- Two Lascannons

I choose a force staff over a force sword, because it is superior against everything that doesn't have a 3+ save, and even then it still wounds marines on a 2+, concussive is nice and it can instant death t3 models without even having to activate force.

Just jumping in here, what kind of list are you trying to go for, it seems like a well rounded list? Also, you are flexible with your choice of paint scheme/Chapter Tactics?

The main thing to remember is to either pick units you will enjoy using and then match a set of Chapter Tactics that will compliment them; or pick a set of Chapter Tactics that you like (paint scheme) and then pick the units that work best with them.

...or do you just want a beat-face cheese list haha

Now you've switched up to Iron Hands so you don't need the 10 man Tactical squad. Waste of points there with no purpose. Your Assault squad is also pretty meh in terms of doing anything. Two flamer shots isn't worth 95pts of suicide since now they also can't use the Ultramarine Assault Tactics.

Using Iron Hands tactics in this list is really under-utilizing what it can do. You have two vehicles only and your one multi wound character is a 2 wound model. Not really going to benefit from It Will Not Die. That's Chapter Master and Captain territory. But, you have two squads of Bikes that can benefit from White Scars tactics, and there would be reason to use Hit and Run with the Assault Squad (if you gave them back their Jump Jets) and the Tactical Squad (if you gave them the Drop Pod). Being able to dish out their small number of attacks on the Charge multiple times would be invaluable if/when you get into Assault. Very easy to plop a Tactical Squad in cover, wait to be Assaulted and firing the whole time, then at the end of that Assault, use Hit and Run and then charge right back into it, ignoring the penalty because you have Frag Grenades.

Your reason for a Staff instead of a Sword is good, IF you play against GEQ more often than MEQ. That isn't my meta but I don't know yours so it might be exactly what you need.

Iron Hands - 1000

Librarian - 110
- Force Staff
- Psyker Mastery Level 2
- Space Marine Bike

Tactical Squad - 200
- 10 Space Marines
- Plasma Gun
- Combi-plasma
- Drop Pod

Scout Squad - 70
- 5 Scouts
- Sniper Rifles
- Camo Cloaks

Mortis Dreadnought - 125
- Two Twin-linked Autocannons

Bike Squad - 135
- 5 Space Marine Bikers
- 2 Meltaguns
- Combi-melta

Bike Squad - 145
- 5 Space Marine Bikers
- 2 Grav-guns
- Combi-grav

Thunderfire Cannon - 100

Predator - 115
- Two Lascannons

Having looked back over my list i messed up the points value for sniper scouts and have as a result decided to switch the assault squad for a thunderfire cannon. Is that a better choice? I just want a very optimised list that is competive and has no serious flaws and not cheesy. And i like iron hands and i don't like the white scars paint scheme so thats why i'm choosing them (Also iron hands non vehicles still get 6+ feel no pain). Also power swords are worse vs meqs with 2+ armour or if they have an invurability save. and only slightly worse vs 3+ armour. What other suggestions would anyone have for my list?