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So I bought my Dark Vengeance pack last year and started painting them. I'm starting to think I should have done my research a little better before hand, every single model I see people using in the GW shop seems flawlessly painted, lovely gradients and blended colors and impossibly fine details, and searching around on the web for tutorials and hints and such I came across more than one forum thread or article or blog post going on about how people won't play against those without well painted armies. Well sadly for me it's next to impossible to get my models up to the high standard, I can't manage to thin my paints to the right level, and have trouble mastering what appear to be basic things like dry brushing and painting gradients elude me. Adding to that, my hand is extremely jittery, it's literally impossible for me to paint fine details or do any sort of freehand work like painting tactical markers or chapter symbols and whatnot, and faces aren't even worth mentioning.

I haven't fielded my army since I bought it since I'm feeling embarrassed by their appearance. Am I just running into the wrong articles? Is everyone at my local GW just an unnaturally gifted painter? How important is it to have an impeccably painted army and will I be the only person without one? I got into the hobby for the game play but I've spent almost a year painting and haven't had my first game yet.

I'll post pictures of my work later, but how important is it to the average player to have perfect paint jobs?

Think about it this way: The people who paint for GW are professionals, their job is to make people jealous. First of all, you don't have to be that precise with details. Say you're highlighting (like on your faces), you could just drybrush, which is when you wipe away 90% of the paint on the brush.

To me it isn't that importnant to have a perfectly painted army. I try to make it as nice as I can, but if you press the links in my sig you'll see how horrible I am.

Also, I think there are 3 standard paint 'levels':
TT-standard, Showcase standard and satisfactory standard.

TT standard is when a model is painted good, but not perfect. It doesn't have to look good, as long as it fits on a battlefield.

Showcase standard is what the GW 'eavy metal team does. It's when you spend tens of hours on a single mdoel, t make them look absolutely prefect.

And last but not least Satisfactory standard. When you paint as much as you want to, as long as you're proud of it you should be fine.

If you need any more help, PM me.

Firstly, always remember its your hobby and you will take from it whatever you want to. if painting isn't your thing, then there is absolutely no need to speed hundreds of hours frustrating yourself.

Whilst some tournaments will require models painted to a minimum standard (usually 3 base colours) and GW stores do not like having unpainted models on their tables, there is no reason anyone should refuse a game due to this (those that do, sod em quite frankly)

Take a look around for local clubs other than the GW store, or form one if there aren't any. If the GW store is your only place to find a game and you do run into this snobbery, you can always look into commissioning someone to paint your army for you - it's not very cheap but not much about this hobby is and the end results from reliable commission services can be jaw dropping)

in terms of improving your painting this will only come with time, ignore complicated techniques like fine lining and freehand if your hands aren't up to it and practice drybrushing as much as you can, it's difficult to get wrong, and GW now have a range of dry paints that won't require thinning. A basecoat, drybrush, then wash will give a decent overall look for tabletop games.

if your hands are bad, look into an airbrush and perhaps some Vallejo model air paints which are thinned for use with an airbrush you'll get much smoother basecoats will will improve the overall look of your models.

I would never tell someone I wouldn't play against an army because of the quality of the paint job. I would never EVER insult someone's painting because even the best painters were bad once.

It could be that your store has a lot of dedicated painters in it... Painting is part skill and a lot of practice practice practice.

It comes down to whether or not you enjoy painting. If you do, don;t worry about the quality of other people's stuff. Just keep plugging away trying new things to build your own skills. They will come eventually.


And I'll second the advice about the airbrush. Certain minis can be done quickly and to a respectable level using mainly the airbrush.

Thanks for the quick responses. I guess i have just been seeing the unnaturally skilled side of the hobby (and some of the snobbish parts of it ). well I guess I should just keep it up and find a game. It's good to know not everyone out there expects every model to be a master piece.

oxyloged wrote:
I haven't fielded my army since I bought it since I'm feeling embarrassed by their appearance. Am I just running into the wrong articles? Is everyone at my local GW just an unnaturally gifted painter? How important is it to have an impeccably painted army and will I be the only person without one? I got into the hobby for the game play but I've spent almost a year painting and haven't had my first game yet.

I'll post pictures of my work later, but how important is it to the average player to have perfect paint jobs?

Welcome to Dakka!

A painted army is always nice to play against, I won't deny that, but I would never refuse a game or judge you based on the quality of your paintwork. We all start somewhere, and all approach painting and the hobby is a whole in different ways. Some will have armies where each model is converted, has a scenic base and is covered in fancy effects like OSL or freehand, some will have an army built from the box and not painted, and most of us fall somewhere in between that. The important thing, though, is that no way is 'better' or 'worse' than any other, and anyone judging you based on that is probably not the nicest chap around anyway.

Everyone starts out somewhere with painting, and even the best out there probably came from the roots of daubing thick paint over snap-fit Tactical Marines. There is a wealth of information out there these days, in any format you care to list, and so there is plenty of time and facility for you to improve should you wish to. Practice will always help, and the more you paint, the better you will get. What I paint now is better than what painted a year ago, which was better than the year before that, and so on and so forth, and I still have a million more things to learn. Keep at it, don't let anyone put you off and you'll soon get the hang of it!

Another thing to bear in mind is that effort counts for as much as quality in a lot of cases. If you have tried to paint, no matter the standard, and are willing to practice and learn, then that is great! So don't be embarrased to ask for tips or help, or show off your work, and certainly don't worry about others not wanting to play your army just because of the paintwork. You're in this hobby for your own enjoyment first and foremost, not to give your opponent a stunning army to look at!

Hope that helps!

Any paint is always better than no paint. Game away.

Slap the paint on and get em on the field! But seriously. Don't procrastinate too long. Better to have a poorly painted army than not painted at all. By the time you finish your first army you would have learned a lot. Go back to those first guys, add some highlights. Color in some details etc. If you think you have improved enough. Strip em back and start again, unless you have bigger and better things to be getting on with!... Ohh yes, fun times ahead If i were to make one painting suggestion it would be to be as neat as possible. Stay within the lines and try your best to achieve nice even blocks of colour. Good luck!

It depends on your local crowd as to how important painting is. Some groups won't mind unpainted models, others will.

I see lots more unpainted models now than I did a few years back, then I'm sure it varies from location to location.

Not long after I started I actually had people insult my painting which did put me off for a while, I'm not a terribly artistic person and my first few armies looked crap (they still look pretty average, lol), mainly because on those early armies I was attempting things beyond my skill level (oddly enough my very first army didn't look bad at all because I just basic techniques I learned from fine scale models) but also because I responded well when someone actually showed me what to do.

Do you have any one who could teach you how to paint? That's always my first recommendation because I personally think it's really hard to understand basic concepts like thinning from reading/watching tutorials, it's soooo much easier when someone just demonstrates it for you.

Where in Australia are you?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It depends on your local crowd as to how important painting is. Some groups won't mind unpainted models, others will.

I see lots more unpainted models now than I did a few years back, then I'm sure it varies from location to location.

Not long after I started I actually had people insult my painting which did put me off for a while, I'm not a terribly artistic person and my first few armies looked crap (they still look pretty average, lol), mainly because on those early armies I was attempting things beyond my skill level (oddly enough my very first army didn't look bad at all because I just basic techniques I learned from fine scale models) but also because I responded well when someone actually showed me what to do.

Do you have any one who could teach you how to paint? That's always my first recommendation because I personally think it's really hard to understand basic concepts like thinning from reading/watching tutorials, it's soooo much easier when someone just demonstrates it for you.

Where in Australia are you?

From Melbourne. I normally go into the Melbourne CBD GW, it's not my local, but the guy who works there is pretty cool and really helps out a lot of new comers like myself so I go there when I can be bothered to make the trip rather than my local.

He's helped me out a lot but I still have trouble with it, I'm just generally not very good at creative stuff in a visual medium.

For me painting is the most important, but I'm not expecting everyone to feel the same way.

As far as 'quality of paint' I could care less - if you tried, and your stuff is (mostly) painted you are totally cool with me.

I like to paint my figures, but I don't have a lot of time to spend on them and my skills aren't great. I just do the best I can with the time and skills I have. My local 40k group runs the whole range as far as painting quality goes (some have armies of mostly bare plastic, some have some absolutely fabulous-looking armies, but the overall average of quality is very low really), and none of us give a crap how well each other's stuff is painted, we just enjoy the game. One of the guys has a very cool-looking Necron army, and when I asked him how long it took to paint, he said he hates painting and that his wife painted his guys for him! As for me, I want to paint all my stuff myself and make it look reasonably good, but I would NEVER insult anyone else's army or refuse to play with them (If anyone does this to you, direct them to the nearest lake and tell them to jump in it! ).

Think about it this way there are three parts of the hobby gaming this is a game you make your army play well you can enjoy that to. Modeling if you do some badass sculpts or wicked conversions take pride in that. Painting if you really dont enjoy it or you cant be asked you can pay to have it pro painted at the end of the day. Its your collection.

Painting should be a joy, not a chore. I know several people at my FLGS who would rather play than paint and as such run "Grey Hordes" find an opponent and ask to play a game. If he cares that you're army isn't painted, simple find someone else.

That being said, if you truly want to paint your guys, practice, practice, practice. No one started out as a Golden Demon painter. Everyone starts as a beginner, and only get to such high standards through practice and always trying to improve.

You would not believe the difference 8 months of practice and researching can make.

Again, if painting isn't your thing, don't bother. I've assembled and primed units just so I could play them but I didn't like the look of the grey.

Seriously, life is too short to do things you don't enjoy. Go out and get a game in!

I paint a heck of a lot more than I play. Here is my take on it. Your models being painted or not have no bearing on my enjoyment of a game. If you find yourself enjoying painting I would encourage you to do so. We all started out not being good. Practicing is key. Work on a technique till you have it figured out then move on to the next one. In no time you will be putting fantastic models on the table.

Also, you should never feel intimidated by how well someone else paints, most folks will gladly help you get better. If you see something you like ask how the person did it. Organize a painting night at your club/store/home and invite a few great painters to come and teach.

Either way, play the game and enjoy your hobby. Don't let anyone else stop you from that.

Your models are painted. That's all that matters.

Right there, you'd one of the best opponents I've ever had.
I've played so many games against Unbound grey plastic hordes that I'm super jaded .

 Verviedi wrote:
Your models are painted. That's all that matters.

Right there, you'd one of the best opponents I've ever had.
I've played so many games against Unbound grey plastic hordes that I'm super jaded .

That's not really fair. People should be allowed to play unpainted models if they want. There's no requirement saying people have to paint their minis.

OP, don't take the supportive comments too literally. Yes, it's nice that you make an effort at all, but good painting matters and you should not settle for "it's ok, I put some paint on them so I don't have to try harder". Fortunately good painting is 5% skill and 95% practice, at least until you get up to "win national-level painting contests" quality (a standard that's well beyond GW's own work). Anything below that is all about clean execution of basic techniques. You don't need amazing artistic talent to paint a smooth base coat or highlight an edge, you just need to do it enough times that you learn from all of your past mistakes and get consistent results. This is especially true if you're using GW's catalog style, which is a deliberately simplified approach that uses step-by-step instructions and little need (or room) for creativity. Follow GW's directions, practice enough, and you'll get GW's results.

 jreilly89 wrote:
There's no requirement saying people have to paint their minis.

And there's no requirement that I have to be willing to play against ugly models. 40k as a game sucks, if you aren't going to do your part to provide an awesome battle scene to enjoy (the only thing that makes up for the bad rules) then why should I have any interest in playing a game with you?

Personally I think painting is hugely important and it's not actually that difficult to produce something average. I say that as someone who has very little natural artistic talent and no history of it in his family.

I have gone from being a below average painter to mediocre and what I would now call decent in the space of 3 or so years (others may disagree, as is their right). How?

Practice. There's really no substitute for it. Some people start off at a slightly higher level than others due to innate ability, but very few begin producing showcase-worthy models right off the bat.

If you're a novice and not happy with the paint jobs you're achieving, start very, very simply and gradually build from there. For example make sure that all your basecoat colours are applied neatly onto the areas you want them. Only once you can do that,move on to adding extra levels of detail. Solid basecoats are the bedrock of a paintjob and if you get those right it's easier to get the next stages right.

2 main bits of advice for new painters are the standard:
1) Thin your paints, don't go globbing it on.
2) Use a sensible sized brush with a decent point.

New painters have never had it so good with the plethora of material around the web showing you how to do things, make sure you take advantage of that.

TLDR?:
Painting does matter. Set a realistic starting goal. Practice. Read up/watch videos on how to get better. Practice. Practice and then practice some more.


I started like this:


And can now do this (for a direct comparison):


or even this:



So improvement is possible, you just need to stick at it.

jreilly89 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Your models are painted. That's all that matters.

Right there, you'd one of the best opponents I've ever had.
I've played so many games against Unbound grey plastic hordes that I'm super jaded .

That's not really fair. People should be allowed to play unpainted models if they want. There's no requirement saying people have to paint their minis.

Except many stores, events and tournaments stipulate a minimum number of colors of paint on a model in order to play it (usually 3). It's a way to prevent players from just buying models to gain an advantage -- whatever that means... I'm just repeating what I often hear

I personally prefer to play against players who have made an effort to paint their models, which isn't to say that I wouldn't play against bare plastic, but all things being equal, I'd play more games with someone who has put some time into making their battle force look cool.

By the way, the real thing is just whether you enjoy the hobby aspect of it (beyond the gaming). If you not, really, who cares -- prime them black, drybrush it with something, and paint one dot of color, and you've satisfied most tournament regs. If you do like the painting, just keep at it. You'll keep getting better and better, and one day, you'll notice that the models painted by the GW store employees are (probably) actually not painted THAT perfectly -- and that yours are actually better! You'll begin to notice things like brushstrokes, a little bit of sloppy here, a shortcut or two there, eyes not painted in... stuff that would qualify the models as decent, but a pretty big leap from perfect.

I was going to write something but Talys said it perfectly..

If there was a player who was just starting out in 40k and still was a bit dodge at painting, I'd be more than happy to play.

If it's a cocky dude with attitude and a based coated force of the current meta, nope. If same dude has reasonably painted his cheese list, I will happily play my cheese list.

Denying a game based on paint job is just as much about other factors. If you're a cool dude, people will play you and both have fun any time.