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I have a fire raptor that I am building(thank the Emperor for hot water ), I was wondering for my DA should I use the Quad Heavy Bolter or the Autocannons. Both seem great and I want to magnetize them at some point. The lists I have it in have a decent amount of anti-tank/flyer/armor so I am just really unsure of what to run it with.

To clarify this is for a Dark Angels Army, I am not lacking anti air and that would not be my plans for the fire raptor.

Autocannons. They can actually hurt vehicles. In general, lists rarely ever need any dedicated anti-infantry weapons that don't also serve as anti-tank weapons as well (e.g. heavy bolters). Only truly exceptional anti-infantry guns, like Wyverns, are worth it. Otherwise, max out your high strength high AP options in order to kill tanks and monstrous creatures.

I would go with the heavy bolters. It's a choice of 2 TL S7 shots on each side vs. 6 TL S5 shots on each side. I would prefer the volume of fire for taking down infantry rather than hoping a couple autocannon shots will plink a vehicle.

Actually, the Quad HBs are better than the ACs again T5 and T6, and equal against T7.

The HBs are obviously much better vs infantry, whereas the ACs are the clear choice vs armor. How badly do you need autocannons to take side/rear shots? Because that's the only time you'll benefit from them.

Or so I thought. Against AV10, the HBs remove slightly more HPs. Against AV11, they remove the same HPs. But hey, they can glance AV13.

Trust me, I want the autocannons to be superior - they look cooler IMO (curse you chaos and your reaper autocannons). If anybody has more to add or more TT experience, please share. I'm currently enjoying a 10 hour layover so my head isn't in the best place for 40k.

 UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Actually, the Quad HBs are better than the ACs again T5 and T6, and equal against T7.

The HBs are obviously much better vs infantry.

Against AV10, the HBs remove slightly more HPs. Against AV11, they remove the same HPs.

These three points sum it up pretty well, plus the heavy bolters have massive coolness factor behind them. The sheer volume of shots coming from those things

Apologies for the slight hijack, but what are people's thoughts in the Chaos version, which can upgrade the HB or AC to rending?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But please don't vote in this, it'll confuse Knee!

 Azreal13 wrote:
Apologies for the slight hijack, but what are people's thoughts in the Chaos version, which can upgrade the HB or AC to rending?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But please don't vote in this, it'll confuse Knee!

They can make the HB rending? Oh, it'd be automatically HB then. Sure, the AC would have the ability to glance AV14 then, but the HB would be getting a rend a turn against armored opponents. Suddenly able to actually hurt riptides? Yes please.

Yeah, several units in IA13 can upgrade either HBs or ACs with Malefic Ammunition, which gives rending.

In the case of the Fire Raptor, it's +50 for the heavy bolters, +35 for the autocannons, but the autocannons are a 10pt upgrade in the first place, still work out 5 points cheaper though.

i do have to admit the Idea of a flying plane that puts out that kind of anti-infantry firepower(with strafing run ) is just awesome.

This plane always seems like the bastard offspring of an AC-130 and an A-10 Thunderbolt.

Let's not forget the ability to engage three different targets in three different arcs!

Yeah, well 4 different doesn't it have power of the machine spirit as well?

Maybe your pansy loyalist one does, but it's functionally irrelevant because once you fire one of the missiles you're snap shooting anyway, so it'll fire three systems nearly all the time.

Yeah, they keep putting ordinance missiles on things, its just dumb for the most part its only nice because I will never fire them so the odds of a weapon destroyed result mattering are a lot lower.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Maybe your pansy loyalist one does, but it's functionally irrelevant because once you fire one of the missiles you're snap shooting anyway, so it'll fire three systems nearly all the time.

Didn't the missiles get changed in IA2? I know the experimental rules had the useless hellstrikes, but IIRC the final version has non-ordnance missiles instead.

I will have to double check, I have the rulebook but I can't remember for sure.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Maybe your pansy loyalist one does, but it's functionally irrelevant because once you fire one of the missiles you're snap shooting anyway, so it'll fire three systems nearly all the time.

Didn't the missiles get changed in IA2? I know the experimental rules had the useless hellstrikes, but IIRC the final version has non-ordnance missiles instead.

Again, I can only speak for IA13, but the standard loadout is 4 x Hellstrike Missiles, with the option to upgrade to the non-ordnance Balefires for 15pts.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Again, I can only speak for IA13, but the standard loadout is 4 x Hellstrike Missiles, with the option to upgrade to the non-ordnance Balefires for 15pts.

Yeah, traitors got screwed on that one. The C:SM version has 4x stormstrike missiles (STR 8 AP 2 concussive) instead. So you can fire the four missiles as your standard full-BS weapons, POTMS the main gun, and independent fire the turret guns.

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
Yeah, they keep putting ordinance missiles on things, its just dumb for the most part its only nice because I will never fire them so the odds of a weapon destroyed result mattering are a lot lower.

You know I've come to the conclusion that there is a single guy in the whole of GW/FW that actually knows Ordnance has downsides, and that's only because he had to write those downsides (and he may have forgotten them too).

Just to add my US$0.02:

I prefer the range of the Autocannons(48") vs. Heavy Bolters (36"). 12" may not seem like much, but it's nice being able to make those long shots across the table.

If I'm close enough for Heavy Bolters, it means I'm probably close enough for anti-aircraft fire from the ground.

/shrug Rule of Cool says Autocannons perform better on the table 'cuz they look cooler then heavy bolters, especially on a Fire Raptor!

For imperials I would take the HBs. They just put out so much firepower.

For chaos I'd take the hades autocannons every day of the week.

Rending heavy bolters sounds good, but the price tag for it is insane.

I really like the HH version of the FR, especially in my IH forces, but yeah, for 40k, HB both Chaos and IoM

The only reason i would consider autocannons would be as anti-air and it would do a poor job at it... The way the turrets are placed, you can never target the same flyer with both of them...

Chaos get Reaper Autocannon Batteries not regular autocannons or hades autocannons. They get twice the shots of a normal autocannon, are twin-linked but are only 36" range.

Wasn't there a poll in this thread? I was interested in the result...

I think for Chaos it's alot easier to decide

Poly Ranger wrote:
Wasn't there a poll in this thread? I was interested in the result...

I added it back to the thread.

 Opera wrote:
I think for Chaos it's alot easier to decide

Yeah it would be, those reaper batteries are nasty and 36" range isn't so bad on a flyer anyways for the hurt those put out.