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2015/02/16 21:40:17
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
WASHINGTON — Roy Moore, the conservative chief justice of Alabama’s Supreme Court, said Sunday that if the U.S. Supreme Court decides that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, he would defy the ruling because it would alter God’s “organic law.”
Under Justice Moore’s urging, many Alabama counties defied both a federal judge’s ruling throwing out the state’s gay marriage ban and the U.S. Supreme Court’s refusal to delay the beginning of same-sex marriages last Monday.
The U.S. Supreme Court will hear April arguments on whether state gay marriage bans violate the Constitution’s guarantee of equal treatment under the law. A ruling is expected in June.
“This power over marriage, which came from God under our organic law, is not to be redefined by the United States Supreme Court or any federal court,” Justice Moore told “Fox News Sunday.”
U.S. Supreme Court rulings are considered the last word on American law.
Asked about the Supreme Court possibly backing same-sex marriage, Justice Moore said: “They may do it, but they may do it wrongfully just like they did in” two 19th century rulings: the pro-slavery 1857 Dred Scott decision and the 1896 Plessy v. Ferguson ruling backing racial segregation.
“I would not be bound thereby” if the Supreme Court declares a right to gay marriage, Justice Moore said.
“I could recuse or dissent, as a justice from Delaware did in the Dred Scott case in 1857. They ruled black people were property. Should a court today obey such a ruling that is completely contradictory to the Constitution?” Justice Moore said.
Justice Moore said Alabama probate judges who have heeded U.S. District Court Judge Callie Granade’s ruling throwing out the state’s same-sex marriage ban are “breaking the Alabama constitution sanctity-of-marriage amendment, which has not been overturned by the United States Supreme Court.”
“We’ve got this federal intrusion into state sovereignty … occurring right under our nose and nobody is standing up,” Justice Moore said. “Twenty-one states have bowed down to federal court orders when they didn’t have to,” he added, referring to states where gay marriage has gone into effect after federal court rulings.
“We’ve got to understand that what a judge says is not law,” Justice Moore added.
In 2000, Justice Moore gained national attention for installing a monument to the biblical Ten Commandments in the state’s judicial building despite the U.S. Constitution’s requirement for a separation of church and state. He was removed from office three years later after defying a federal order to take it down, but was returned to his post by voters in 2012.
So, where will the outrage from conservatives be? This is a textbook case of the kind of "activist judge" they so often complain about. And, unlike most "activist judges", he's even openly admitting that he's going to refuse to obey the higher courts. So will they be consistent in their outrage and condemn Moore's actions, or will they admit that "activist judge" really means "any judge that makes a ruling that doesn't agree with conservative ideology" and support his defense of Jesus-approved marriage?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/02/16 21:42:48
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
As someone who is called right wing I think this judge has no place on the bench if he cannot follow the law. If he wants to apply God's law he is in the wrong profession.
2015/02/16 22:20:31
Subject: Re:Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Yeah, this judge is not fit to serve. It's their job to uphold the letter of the law. There's a small degree of fudge factor involved, but completely bypassing the law because of your personal religious beliefs is not acceptable for someone who's supposed to represent an unbiased legal institution independent of any given religion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/16 22:23:27
I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.
2015/02/16 22:31:12
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Just read about Moore. Well. Opinion is opinion, but if you're part of the state, then you gotta do what the state tells ya to do. Don't like gay marriage? Resign.
What is the functional difference between what he proposes, and the right-wing scares about how we might implement sharia law? He's essentially saying the written law is secondary to his interpretation of what god wants.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
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2015/02/16 23:23:02
Subject: Re:Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Ouze wrote: What is the functional difference between what he proposes, and the right-wing scares about how we might implement sharia law? He's essentially saying the written law is secondary to his interpretation of what god wants.
Rightwing/Conservative <> Religious nuts.
Having said that, I don't see any difference.
Definitely not fit for judgeship.
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2015/02/16 23:48:13
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
It is interesting, though how he brings up Dredd Scott and Plessy v. Ferguson as instances where the Supreme Court got it wrong.
That being said, I think, as someone pointed out earlier, he is in the wrong profession, based off his earlier actions. He should be in the clergy instead of on the bench.
2015/02/17 00:15:39
Subject: Re:Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
It's good that everyone can agree this guy is an idiot. If there's anything that brings dakka together it's that moment when we find someone crazier than we are.
Relapse wrote: That being said, I think, as someone pointed out earlier, he is in the wrong profession, based off his earlier actions. He should be in the clergy instead of on the bench.
It's kind of scary whenever there's a judge who understands his job as anything other than administering the law as it is presented to him. Honestly, that's a major part of the reason I've cooled on the value of a bill of rights, it requires judges to do more than follow legislation and precedent, part of their job now involves reviewing the law. It isn't a direct problem, but it does seem to introduce a culture that I think can be problematic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/17 00:21:28
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/02/17 00:17:19
Subject: Re:Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
He is definitely in the wrong profession. I don't even like it when I see/hear campaign ads proclaiming which political party a judge is running on, since I think even that is a violation of a judge's impartiality. .
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2015/02/17 00:21:31
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Relapse wrote: It is interesting, though how he brings up Dredd Scott and Plessy v. Ferguson as instances where the Supreme Court got it wrong.
I agree. It says a lot about his martyrdom beliefs when he tries to present himself as the abused minority on the wrong end of oppressive government instead of the side doing the oppressing of a minority.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/02/17 01:11:24
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Relapse wrote: It is interesting, though how he brings up Dredd Scott and Plessy v. Ferguson as instances where the Supreme Court got it wrong.
I agree. It says a lot about his martyrdom beliefs when he tries to present himself as the abused minority on the wrong end of oppressive government instead of the side doing the oppressing of a minority.
Seriously. The irony would be hilarious if not for the fact that it intends to uphold discrimination.
Gay marriage has reached a social norm tipping point. It is now as publically accepted as giving women the vote or allowing black people to eat at the same lunch counter. Even the most fringe politicians no longer debate such issues. Marriage equality has a few more bumps to pass over before the road smooths out but there is no amount of last ditch political action that is going to stop it. Another ten years of Millenials joining the socio-political sphere will nail its coffin shut.
Of course it is needless to say that this guy is an asshat and as a southerner I always take personal offense to the clowns that earn us our stereotypes.
As for all of us here on Dakka (varying from place to place) I have a feeling that 30 years from now our children and grand children will ask us what it was like living in a world of marriage discrimination with very perplexed expressions etched across their faces.
2015/02/17 02:36:43
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Peregrine wrote: I agree. It says a lot about his martyrdom beliefs when he tries to present himself as the abused minority on the wrong end of oppressive government instead of the side doing the oppressing of a minority.
Yep, at the heart of pretty much immoral social construct you’ll find people who are convinced they are the victims, that some trivial or fictional inconvenience to themselves is more serious than the denial of a major right to someone else.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/02/17 02:40:22
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
Separation of Church and State ... this Judge is failing by allowing his personal bias to interfere with his professional opinions. He should be removed from his seat. This is him saying that he knows the laws and yet will refuse to follow the law even if he does not like it ... as the rest of us are forced to do. He can have all the religion he wants, but he can not allow his beliefs to affect his professional life. This kind of thing really pisses me off.
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
2015/02/17 05:19:24
Subject: Activist judge vows to defy US supreme court...
sebster wrote: Yep, at the heart of pretty much immoral social construct you’ll find people who are convinced they are the victims, that some trivial or fictional inconvenience to themselves is more serious than the denial of a major right to someone else.
sebster wrote: Yep, at the heart of pretty much immoral social construct you’ll find people who are convinced they are the victims, that some trivial or fictional inconvenience to themselves is more serious than the denial of a major right to someone else.
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