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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





A friend of mine wants to build an "extreme" MSU marine army. His 1850 list will look something like this:

HQ (probably a minimal cc chapter master, 2+ save and a power weapon)
6 units of 10 Tactical Marines with a Meltagun and Rhino/Drop Pod (4 Rhinos, 2 Pods)
3 Storm Talons with Skyhammer Missiles
2 Thunderfire Cannons

There are no Chapter Tactics in mind, but most of them would work pretty well. White Scars giving those 12 Combat Squads Hit and Run, Iron Hands to give 60 Marines 6+ FnP, Imperial Fists to overwhelm with bolter fire, Raven Guard to start the game spread across the board (or in your face)...

I'm having a hard time finding a real weakness with the list. I know that Kill Points are often a part of the game at tournaments, but we typically play with objectives. Is there a good counter to a list like this?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Meq hordes can be really good in objective based games. They're weakness is also they're strength, i.e. tacs. They aren't very killy so need to play the mission more than some since they can't shift gears as easily.

There are also armies that can wipe 60 meq in 4-5 turns. And lastly if you encounter an army that is also obsec but is either more mobile or more killy or both you will be at a disadvantage.

I feel the dpa version is probably the stronger version but there's something to be said for rhinos too.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Florida

What are you planning on taking against him?

The glaring weakness I see is that by splitting his force (presumably on the objective) in such a way he has six units of tactical marines with bolters, and six with 5 bolters + 1 meltagun each. Assuming there's going to be a little shooting before objective grabbing around round 3, those tacticals are going to be short ranged and are going to be doing mediocre shooting save for the meltas. This leaves his ranged to the Storm Talon and Thunderfire Cannons doing the heavy lifting.

The tacticals will just be annoying to deal with, and if he combat squads on something the most annoying part will be being able to kill all the MEQs in my opinion. If you manage to get rid of the storm talons and thunderfires it will really just be luck of the die to see if you can dismount that many marines. I wouldn't say totally disregard them, remember that tac marines still have pistols so they can shoot and counter charge if you get careless.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




CSMs - Heldrakes
Daemons - Soul Grinders
Necrons - Wraith, pretorians, destroyers
Guard - LOL
Eldar - So many thing things
Tau - Guns
Space Marines - Bikes
Orks - They do that list better and cheaper
Dark Eldar - LOL
Grey Knights - They do that list better but more expensive.

12, 5 man tac squads is annoying, but the list lacks punch. I applaud its balance, Anti-tank? Check. Anti-hoard? Check. Anti-air? Check. The list doesn't actually put out that much fire power though, and close combat is non existent.

I have a fluffy khorne list that would be a blast to play against that list.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




BA: run over his list 1/3 of it at a time.

The weakness of the list is that he can't kill any enemy models, because bolters are awful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/17 04:11:08


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Mass marines benefit from Calgar. Thoug, get ready for him to become LOW with a new codex.
I'd aso recommend going for at least 3 pods. You'll be able to drop 2 of them 1-st turn.
And make use of melta sternguard in pods. They work great in such lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/17 04:16:11


 
   
Made in pa
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




I think you need four things.

1) Lots of long-range anti-tank available from turn 1. Pop the Rhinos ASAP and then pick away at the dismounts afterwards.

2) Some effective AP3 capable units that can either vaporize Tac squads off objectives, or protect your backfield.

3) You will need a way to minimize casualties or a way to counter the flyers/artillery directly.

4) Some objective secured units to contest against any squads you cannot neutralize.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




A horde tyranid or Ork list would work pretty well. Just spread the objectives around, put them in cover especially, then flood the board with bodies. Like others have said, he isn't very killy.
That or dominating the air with your own flyers. If he loses those, you can then focus on his thunder fire cannons. I second the notion that this army would be a blast to play against!
Also, void shield generators!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/17 05:21:04


   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

It might be fun to try vanguard vets. Toss a few power swords in the squad and multi assault all the little combat squads. Maybe have a guy or two with melta bombs to open up vehicles.

One of the strengths of the MSU list is there are just too many of them to target. Assault lets you get more then one a round. Vanguards lets you do that without penalty.

   
Made in kr
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight






Tokyo, Japan

What about a variety of marine msu? I have been trying 5 assault cannon razorback backed by storm talons With mix of plasma melta combat squads. I keep feeling like trying a thunder fire cannon instead though I am missing the model atm

+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Minneapolis, MN

Try to pop those Rhinos on turn 1, hamstring his ability to move his squads around the board. He'll then have to rely solely on his drop pods to cap objectives on your side of the board.

Beyond that, just focus on getting high a volume of AP2/3 weapons. There are lots of efficient anti-MEQ weapons in today's 40k. By taking so many ObSec units, he's significantly compromising his own firepower. If his strategy is just to clog up your meatgrinder with dead marines, then bring a better meatgrinder.
   
 
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