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Hey guys, so as I slowly learn the new (ish) edition I've been wondering about the role of troops. If I'm reading the rules correctly, just about anything can contest objectives, so unless you're running a detachment with Objective Secured they lose that benefit. So basically I'm just wondering if I'm missing something. Is there a huge advantage to takinng excess troops in this edition?

Something like Space Marines, and who can have 18 Obsec units can be very hard to completely push off objectives, especially under timed tournament play.

There are also some very good troop choices in some armies. Eldar Jetbikes are still amazing, and Necron Warriors aren't shabby at all. No there isn't a real advantage except in specific circumstances. Against Chaos for instance. They use Bikes and Spawn to take objectives, I use Eldar Jetbikes. My Objective Secured means I'm going to nab the Objective from them and might win the game because of it.

eldar trickery at its best.

Two words: Ork Boyz.

Nuff said.

In games where objectives matter, and you're building a list to win via objectives, Troops become invaluable. Don't let people tell you otherwise. The reason being, while every unit is scoring, your Obsec Troops will trump them or contest other Obsec units.

Some armies have it easier than others when it comes to this. For example: MEQ can do combat squads and make some fairly durable units that can hunker down on objectives. Orks and Nids have such sheer numbers, it takes a lot of time to shake them off an objective, not to mention they can space out enough to make even other Obsec units unable to contest it until they hack their way through several ranks of them.

Don't underestimate large numbers of cheap troops, or elite squads of troops. Against things like MEQ squads, they're usually packing some sort of heat to bring the pain if they need to. The opposite are swarms of troops that make up for their lack of punch by sheer weight of fire.This forum is full of people who have some really extreme views. Troops are versatile and pretty damn survivable. The worst thing most infantry have to deal with is getting across the table in mostly one piece. As a CSM player, a couple squads of cultists rushing forward so my marines can get into position gives the best of both worlds. You can't rely on infantry to do EVERYTHING anymore, though. They need some heavy fire support in one form or another to deal with all the shenanigans going on these days.Learning to use infantry on the tabletop does require some skill. Knowing what weapon types your opponent can bring to bear affects how you will be spacing out your troops. Stick to cover, and don't let your characters gets wasted by putting them out front. It's perfectly viable to run an HQ with a bunch of fodder troops around him to make look out sir saves if needed. You'll want to run as few troops on foot as possible unless they have long range weaponry or some sort of movement enhancing rule to get them where they need to be.

You should have either numerous troops with some kind of morale protection or very resistant troops. Without one or another, get a lot of dakka/choppa to kill enemy troops

 docdoom77 wrote:
Two words: Ork Boyz.

Nuff said.

There's never nuff said! (or dakka)

With maelstrom missions and random objectives that only last a turn objective secured is pretty powerful since a lot of times you only need to last on the objective for a whole turn (as apposed to having it by the end of the game).

I have not seen mentioned yet, and Tag333 made point of it in the tyranid thread, it depends on what you play. EW style missions OS is not nearly as important as having either enough firepower to clear enemy objectives or so much durability you can't be moved of yours. In Maelstrom it becomes very powerful letting OS units steal objectives out from under opposing non-OS units, which can make a huge difference on d3 point objective cards.

I didn't mean at all to infer that troop choices are useless, as I love my ork boyz. I was just wondering if there was a rule I was missing that gave them an advantage even if I take one of the Ork specific detachments. I love all the advice though, thanks!

So as a follow up: does this make the CAD more favourable then the majority of non-OS detachments specific to the codices? Thanks!

I would say that a CAD is a all-around decent detachment with no real drawbacks. You take other formations or detachments if they will offer a benefit to the strategy or army you are planning on playing. I play Grey Knights and AM personally. I pretty much always run my GK in the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment as the benefits to reserve rolls are highly useful and I generally don't run a lot of specific Troop choices, so the value of a CAD is lost to me.

Am on the other hand makes really good use of a CAD, having a lot of troop selections to get ObSec. So I guess what I am trying to say is that CADs and all other detachments should be taken when they give your army the best benefits for what you are playing.

 mazik765 wrote:
I didn't mean at all to infer that troop choices are useless, as I love my ork boyz. I was just wondering if there was a rule I was missing that gave them an advantage even if I take one of the Ork specific detachments. I love all the advice though, thanks!

So as a follow up: does this make the CAD more favourable then the majority of non-OS detachments specific to the codices? Thanks!

If you take the ork formations I believe you lose OS. you do gain a few advantages, one of which is just plain old having a lot more boyz

barnowl wrote:

 mazik765 wrote:
I didn't mean at all to infer that troop choices are useless, as I love my ork boyz. I was just wondering if there was a rule I was missing that gave them an advantage even if I take one of the Ork specific detachments. I love all the advice though, thanks!

So as a follow up: does this make the CAD more favourable then the majority of non-OS detachments specific to the codices? Thanks!

If you take the ork formations I believe you lose OS. you do gain a few advantages, one of which is just plain old having a lot more boyz

You don't get more Orks boys because you're using their detachment as you coulkd just take multiple CADs. The Orks detachment is pretty useless to be honest, CADs or unbound are the most effective ways to run Orks in 7th (though Ghazzy Formations can be good too). Also in this codex and this edition you are rewarded for building an MSU army over fielding fewer large units.

Yeah I feel like that fact that they can have obsec is a reason to use troops. But also some troops are still staple parts to many armies.
Orks, Eldar, GK...all have useful troop choices.

I always run with the Ork detachment, I like the option of having them gain hammer of wrath, thereby mitigating the low initiative. When I need objectives held, I use bodies to keep objective secured away. Although, I primarily rely on tabling my opponents for victory with da boyz anyway.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I always run with the Ork detachment, I like the option of having them gain hammer of wrath, thereby mitigating the low initiative. When I need objectives held, I use bodies to keep objective secured away. Although, I primarily rely on tabling my opponents for victory with da boyz anyway.

I don't know about you but I rarely got to make use of hammer of wrath when I took that detachment. Not only do you have to roll a 10 or higher for charge but only the models that actually make it into base contact get to use hammer of wrath. I average 7 to 9 orks and making S3 hits I would wound maybe 4. I don't take the ork horde detachment anymore.

I do take the ghaz detachments for the nifty relics though and possibly deep strike depending on who I play.