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This topic has come up across several threads over the last few days and ImAGeek asked me to delve into HH Vol 1 Betrayal for some answers. After extracting said tome from deep within my archives (under piles and piles of other game books), I can finally fulfill his request.

As it turns out, III Legion enjoyed the Emperor's favour even before reunification with Fulgrim. Early on in the Great Crusade, the Emperor was wounded during an insurrection on Proxima during compliance ceremonies. III Legion warriors had been selected as the Emperor's honour guard for the occasion and they died to the last man fighting side by side with the Custodes protecting the Master of Mankind. The Emperor granted III Legion the exclusive right thenceforth to bear his own standard, the Palatine Aquila. The standard bearer and accompanying honour guard therefore painted their armour imperial purple, which custom eventually extended to the whole Legion (I would guess because at one point there were so few of them; approx. 200 upon reunification). This heraldry became official when III Legion was renamed. The Emperor also used III Legion warriors as heralds, conveying his orders to the other legions and military forces.

The name "Emperor's Children" was apparently informally used all the way from the beginning because the noble families of Europa tithed their first born sons to III Legion as tribute-penance for resisting the Emperor during the Unification Wars. The Emperor formally bestowed that cognomen upon III Legion, as we well know, after hearing Fulgrim's enthusiastic greeting to what remained of III Legion over Chemos. The Emperor also immediately devoted "substantial resources" to the EC.

It makes their fall all the more tragic. The Emperor's Children Legion could have born wonders to the Imperium if they hadn't turned traitor. A bastion of arts in the Imperium untouched by the dogma of the Imperium after the Horus Heresy, maybe even acting as a second Ultramarine's Chapter.

 Wyzilla wrote:
It makes their fall all the more tragic. The Emperor's Children Legion could have born wonders to the Imperium if they hadn't turned traitor. A bastion of arts in the Imperium untouched by the dogma of the Imperium after the Horus Heresy, maybe even acting as a second Ultramarine's Chapter.

This is always how I took it. If anything, the Emperor's Children were even greater than the Ultramarines because they weren't as bound by strictures and were more open to progressive evolution of the Imperium. This quest towards perfection in all things would, unfortunately, prove to be the very thing that set them down such a dark path. I've always liked to think that the Ultramarines are just a few steps shy of the Emperor's Children.

Even before their fall, the EC were capable of extraordinary bitterness. Their quest for perfection got them stuck in the misanthropic position of envying those who excelled them while holding the ones they surpassed in contempt. I think Guilliman would hold both attitudes are vices unworthy of the UM. The difference is, UM strive to be good -- in all senses of that word. EC, on the other hand, strive to be the best. For them, excellence is its own end.

You can see how Horus, who had achieved so much and was ultimately judged by their father to be primus inter pares, could manipulate the ambition, devotion, and envy of Fulgrim.

If I recall correctly, a slight majority of the Emperor's Children had remained faithful to the Emperor and met their end upon Istvaan III. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

 King Pariah wrote:
If I recall correctly, a slight majority of the Emperor's Children had remained faithful to the Emperor and met their end upon Istvaan III. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

I think you mean minority rather than majority but yes, there were loyalist elements in the EC that were purged alongside those from the Sons of Horus, Death Guard and World Eaters. Saul Tarvitz and Solomon Demeter are a couple of examples. Even Lucius the Eternal was originally assigned to death before his betrayal allowed him back into the Traitor fold.

 King Pariah wrote:
If I recall correctly, a slight majority of the Emperor's Children had remained faithful to the Emperor and met their end upon Istvaan III. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

According to Horus Heresy: betrayal from FW the legion was at a strength of around 110,000 with between a quarter and a third marked for death on Istvaan 3. They then lost a further 20,000 trying to destroy the loyalist faction on Istvaan 3, so total losses were around 55,000, which made Horus pretty hacked off.

Okay! That's the number I got confused with, the rough estimate of total casualties of the EC. Thanks!

Ryalnor and Tarvitz were awesome, wish there was more on them.

HH Book 1 also notes that among the ~50,000 EC casualties were many who probably would have followed Fulgrim but he marked them for death anyway because they didn't come up to his standards.

 Manchu wrote:
Even before their fall, the EC were capable of extraordinary bitterness. Their quest for perfection got them stuck in the misanthropic position of envying those who excelled them while holding the ones they surpassed in contempt. I think Guilliman would hold both attitudes are vices unworthy of the UM. The difference is, UM strive to be good -- in all senses of that word. EC, on the other hand, strive to be the best. For them, excellence is its own end.

You can see how Horus, who had achieved so much and was ultimately judged by their father to be primus inter pares, could manipulate the ambition, devotion, and envy of Fulgrim.

Depends on the individual - the ones who got the spirit of the Emperor's Children right were every bit as noble as the Ultramarines. Unfortunately (a) there weren't quite enough of them and (b) - rather more importantly - Fulgrim was just a complete prat.


As far as 'why did he show that favour on them' - there's a real sense in some of the stories that even unity on Terra wasn't as complete and whole-hearted as the Emperor and Malcador would have people believe; keeping the old nobility on side might have been very important.

I have never seen any basis for the notion that the Emperor faced opposition on Terra by the time of the Great Crusade. That is certainly not intimated by the chapter on III Legion in HH Book 1 -- to the contrary, the nobles of Europa gave up their firstborn to symbolize submission to the Emperor and contrition in having ever opposed him. While some gave up their children willingly and others only grudgingly, none were in a position to do otherwise.

I don't think the "nobility" (in terms of moral character) of particular ECs is particularly relevant. Given there had been more than a hundred thousand of them by the time of Istvaan III, I'm sure their individual characters varied considerably. But as an institution with an institutional culture, the EC emphasized cultivating their skills to perfection above all other ideals -- including comradeship, loyalty, and faith.

Now it is probably wise to look at the EC in terms of two distinct periods:

- III Legion; which is to say, pre-reunification with Fulgrim

- Emperor's Children; i.e., post-reunification with Fulgrim

This is particularly important to understanding the EC because there were only 200 of them left when the Emperor found Fulgrim. The Legion not only owed its very narrow escape from extinction to Fulgrim but was also basically totally reformed under Fulgrim's own guidance from the very moment he assumed command.

Keeping that in mind, remember that III Legion received the exclusive honour of bearing the Palatine Aquila long before they became the Emperor's Children. The heroic sacrifice in defense the Emperor's own person on Proxima exemplified courageous devotion to the Master of Mankind. But how strongly did that value run through Fulgrim's rebuilt legion?

I think we can learn a lot about Fulgrim and the psychology of his fall from Istvaan III. As with the economy and culture of Chemos, the Phoenician rebuilt his legion from the ashes. But he was not content with his work and sought to refine it further. Therefore he did not only mark loyalist EC for death but also those who would have followed him -- because he did not consider them worthy. For Fulgrim, no blade is ever sharp enough.

I think it would be a mistake to think of Fulgrim as simply turning on the Emperor, as Horus did. The deeper issue was likely that Fulgrim would never be satisfied with any status quo. He always needed to go further, do better, accomplish more. This excessive nature, of course, was perfect fodder for Slaanesh.

 Manchu wrote:

I think it would be a mistake to think of Fulgrim as simply turning on the Emperor, as Horus did. The deeper issue was likely that Fulgrim would never be satisfied with any status quo. He always needed to go further, do better, accomplish more. This excessive nature, of course, was perfect fodder for Slaanesh.

And it certainly didn't help that he had the proverbial little devil on his shoulder prodding him on.

What I've always liked about the Emperor's Children is that they were the ideal to aspire to. They were like the Knights of the Round Table: the best warriors, renowned in equal measure for their skill and their honor. And then they fell.

I'm surprised this HH Betrayal gives a specific number on the ECs. Does it specify other Legions too?

Anyway, on topic there's always a lot of "ifs and buts" about each of the traitor legions about how they could have avoided going to the dark side but I always thought there was no escape for the ECs. Their quest for perfection and superior attitude would have always ended up in some kind of disaster eventually.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I'm surprised this HH Betrayal gives a specific number on the ECs. Does it specify other Legions too?

Anyway, on topic there's always a lot of "ifs and buts" about each of the traitor legions about how they could have avoided going to the dark side but I always thought there was no escape for the ECs. Their quest for perfection and superior attitude would have always ended up in some kind of disaster eventually.

The FW books give pretty specific numbers about the Legions, yeah. They're written as though they're historical books, so there's the facts and figures you'd expect from a history book.