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Let me preface this by saying I know this question has been answered several times. However, this issue came up in at my FLGS the other night and I was unable to point to any specific wording or rule to prove that my Kabalites could fire at full BS after the Raider they were in had jinked. It seemed like everyone at the table disagreed, and despite them ending up letting me play it that way, I still felt as though I seemed like I was being shifty with the rules. I just would like someone to quote some rules and lay it out in an objective manner that cannot be argued with. One of the store guys came over and looked it up, then got into a debate about whether units in a dedicated transport were considered the same unit as the transport. I thought it was silly since I've seen this tactic plenty of times over on the Dark City, but like I said, I couldn't disprove them in a straightforward manner and it really made me seem like TFG. Any help is appreciated.

Is there a rule telling you that passengers of a jinking transport must snap shot?

No, there isn't.

Units in a dedicated transport are not the same unit as the transport. If they were, they'd have to embark on themselves.

The Transport rules never state that the embarked unit becomes part of the same unit. In fact, if this were the case then you'd have the mind-bending situation of the transport needing to embark upon itself, since the whole unit must be embarked if any part of it is.

The rules for Dedicated Transports (Preparing for Battle > Battlefield Role) states that the transport has the same Battlefield Role as the unit it was bought for, but this does not mean that it is the same unit.

Lastly, the rules for Jink only force the models that actually have the Jink rule to fire snap shots. Even if your opponent tries to argue that the unit and its transport are the same unit (they're not), the embarked models (probably) don't have Jink and so aren't affected by it.

I can only find conditions for a Transport's passengers needing to Snap Fire for movement speed and damage results. there is nothing under Jink that states an embarked unit has to Snap Fire (even though thematically it might make sense). The people you were playing against were probably arguing that a transport and its embarked unit formed one unit. However, there are examples in the Embarking and Disembarking sections that refer to the "Embarked unit", meaning that they are still treated as a separate unit.

If this comes up again, I would ask them to provide proof of where it says that you are required to. Hope this makes you not feel like TFG.

Every week such threads come up... guys, just read the jink rules. In no way jinking affects passangers. AFAIK, never did.

rigeld2 wrote:Is there a rule telling you that passengers of a jinking transport must snap shot?

No, there isn't.

Units in a dedicated transport are not the same unit as the transport. If they were, they'd have to embark on themselves.

Cheexsta wrote:The Transport rules never state that the embarked unit becomes part of the same unit. In fact, if this were the case then you'd have the mind-bending situation of the transport needing to embark upon itself, since the whole unit must be embarked if any part of it is.

The rules for Dedicated Transports (Preparing for Battle > Battlefield Role) states that the transport has the same Battlefield Role as the unit it was bought for, but this does not mean that it is the same unit.

Lastly, the rules for Jink only force the models that actually have the Jink rule to fire snap shots. Even if your opponent tries to argue that the unit and its transport are the same unit (they're not), the embarked models (probably) don't have Jink and so aren't affected by it.

Thanks guys, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I'd just like to have a thread to direct them to in case this comes up again.

Freezerassasin wrote:I can only find conditions for a Transport's passengers needing to Snap Fire for movement speed and damage results. there is nothing under Jink that states an embarked unit has to Snap Fire (even though thematically it might make sense). The people you were playing against were probably arguing that a transport and its embarked unit formed one unit. However, there are examples in the Embarking and Disembarking sections that refer to the "Embarked unit", meaning that they are still treated as a separate unit.

If this comes up again, I would ask them to provide proof of where it says that you are required to. Hope this makes you not feel like TFG.

One of the issues was that we couldn't find a rule that says they do. Because that leads you into the dangerous territory of "Well it doesn't say I can't do such-and-such". I'll point them to 'embarked unit' stuff to clarify that they are different units.

Vector Strike wrote:Every week such threads come up... guys, just read the jink rules. In no way jinking affects passangers. AFAIK, never did.

As I stated in my first post, I already know the answer, and until a few days ago I always assumed that everyone was on the same page. I just wanted to have it laid out in a clear manner so that I have a constructed argument in case this comes up again.