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Hello! I am going to a ETC regulated GT next month and am looking for advice. Here is the list I have been testing. What could be better?

LoC, lvl 4, greater gift, lesser gift (wand of whimsy) metal, general
KoS, lvl 2, greater gift, shadows

24 plaguebearers, full command
10 pink horrors
10 pink horrors

1 skull cannon
3 plague drones, standard, champ
3 plague drones, standard, champ

3 screamers
3 screamers

2400

Drop the Kipper for some chaff.

460 points of chaff?

 Icelord wrote:
460 points of chaff?

A slaanesh grinder(stone thrower) and chaff works out better for you in the long run. That way, you can give Warlocks a hard time from turn 1.

Don't have the points in rare for a grinder.

 Icelord wrote:
Don't have the points in rare for a grinder.

Drop the second unit of 3 drones. They're fairly redundant.

LoC + KoS is pretty cool to me, especially as it means the Kipper doesn't have to be the general, giving up less VP when s/he eats it. I'd be tempted to run as you have myself, as much as I like grinders.

On the drones, I'm surprised one doesn't have flaming banner. Plaguebearer champ is easy swap. And no exalted gift on the chicken? Eternal Blade is pretty standard when it comes to beatdown birdy - I like the Wand a lot but it never seems to get going.

- Salvage

Hmm good advice. I really wanted a greater on him as I wanted that 2+ save or something like that. You think it's better for 1 exalted?

 Icelord wrote:
Hmm good advice. I really wanted a greater on him as I wanted that 2+ save or something like that. You think it's better for 1 exalted?

Exalted and a lesser on the chicken. ASF Sword and Eternal Blade. Gives you the most mileage out of any of the Greaters.

Plus that way, you don't need the Choir, and you guarantee Gateway on the horrors.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Exalted and a lesser on the chicken. ASF Sword and Eternal Blade. Gives you the most mileage out of any of the Greaters.

Plus that way, you don't need the Choir, and you guarantee Gateway on the horrors.

He's taking METAL magic currently TDA, so I wouldn't call that a guarantee

If you don't want to dig up 25 points, Icey, just the exalted will work fine. All of the lessers are great but the Eternal Blade is what makes this deathchicken run. And for the record, I am severely uncomfortable that for some reason daemons with two magical weapons can use them both at the same time - though admittedly I think there's a few cases where there are special characters with two magic weapons (Hellebron, Skarbrand, couple others) who have two weapons and use them both. I suppose the real problem is how you acquire two weapons, when normal armies can't purchase two on the same model ...

I actually was working on a looooong response about how the Greater chart is junk, but TDA's brutal response is as pragmatic as ever. So yea, take at least an exalted gift on that LoC.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Exalted and a lesser on the chicken. ASF Sword and Eternal Blade. Gives you the most mileage out of any of the Greaters.

Plus that way, you don't need the Choir, and you guarantee Gateway on the horrors.

He's taking METAL magic currently TDA, so I wouldn't call that a guarantee

If you don't want to dig up 25 points, Icey, just the exalted will work fine. All of the lessers are great but the Eternal Blade is what makes this deathchicken run. And for the record, I am severely uncomfortable that for some reason daemons with two magical weapons can use them both at the same time - though admittedly I think there's a few cases where there are special characters with two magic weapons (Hellebron, Skarbrand, couple others) who have two weapons and use them both. I suppose the real problem is how you acquire two weapons, when normal armies can't purchase two on the same model ...

I actually was working on a looooong response about how the Greater chart is junk, but TDA's brutal response is as pragmatic as ever. So yea, take at least an exalted gift on that LoC.

- Salvage

The Gifts section does actually say that you can end up with 2 magic weapons, and that you choose one at the start of combat.

The ASF sword gets its use from the fact that it gives the wielder ASF. So you don't actually have to swing the sword in order to gain the benefit.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Exalted and a lesser on the chicken. ASF Sword and Eternal Blade. Gives you the most mileage out of any of the Greaters.

Plus that way, you don't need the Choir, and you guarantee Gateway on the horrors.

He's taking METAL magic currently TDA, so I wouldn't call that a guarantee

If you don't want to dig up 25 points, Icey, just the exalted will work fine. All of the lessers are great but the Eternal Blade is what makes this deathchicken run. And for the record, I am severely uncomfortable that for some reason daemons with two magical weapons can use them both at the same time - though admittedly I think there's a few cases where there are special characters with two magic weapons (Hellebron, Skarbrand, couple others) who have two weapons and use them both. I suppose the real problem is how you acquire two weapons, when normal armies can't purchase two on the same model ...

I actually was working on a looooong response about how the Greater chart is junk, but TDA's brutal response is as pragmatic as ever. So yea, take at least an exalted gift on that LoC.

- Salvage

The Eternal blade thing comes from the FAQ that states that a latent stat boost is always applied. You use the ASF sword, but because of the inability to choose not to use the +D3 stats, they apply anyway.

As for the metal chicken, you'll still get more mileage out of the flying Tzeentch chicken. Metal's good, but your army doesn't need it. I'd recommend tzeentch because the horrors have too much chance of rolling dud spells. Plus Tzeentch isn't a bad lore!


The best thing to do would be to check the ETC 2014 lists as a guideline, and formulate your own from there.

I just hate giving people regen, although yes I know it's not a big deal.

I also figured I hate to hit Botwd so transmutation would be good.

So you think tzeentch on the chicken and on both PH?

Obv shadow on the kos.

 Icelord wrote:
I just hate giving people regen, although yes I know it's not a big deal.

I also figured I hate to hit Botwd so transmutation would be good.

So you think tzeentch on the chicken and on both PH?

Obv shadow on the kos.

I don't think you should take The Kipper at all. Too much investment for what you get.

The only point of upgrading a kipper to a level 4 is to guarantee Gateway on the horrors. Otherwise you keep him a level 2 and take 2 level 2 heralds.

2 tzeentch heralds? I am confused lol

Think you mistyped TDA:

thedarkavenger wrote:The only point of upgrading a kipper to a level 4 is to guarantee Choir on the kipper.

There, fixed it for ya

Icelord wrote:2 tzeentch heralds? I am confused lol

I think in this case the heralds take METAL and insta-gib stuff with their uber-spells, while the LoC has TIZZ magic and mostly beats stuff up with his eternal beatstick. Two levels of TIZZ magic rolled before two horror units has a pretty decent chance of putting Gateway onto one of the horrors, though it means that your LoC or herald has to keep whatever they roll before the horrors go. Which can often be junk given the lore.

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Think you mistyped TDA:

thedarkavenger wrote:The only point of upgrading a kipper to a level 4 is to guarantee Choir on the kipper.

There, fixed it for ya

Icelord wrote:2 tzeentch heralds? I am confused lol

I think in this case the heralds take METAL and insta-gib stuff with their uber-spells, while the LoC has TIZZ magic and mostly beats stuff up with his eternal beatstick. Two levels of TIZZ magic rolled before two horror units has a pretty decent chance of putting Gateway onto one of the horrors, though it means that your LoC or herald has to keep whatever they roll before the horrors go. Which can often be junk given the lore.

- Salvage

No. The level 4 on the chicken is to guarantee the big blaster on the horrors, where it gets the most utility.

The double herald achieves the same effect, but loses the only tzeentch combat piece in the army.

When choosing a level 4 for the army on it's own merit, the Kipper or Papa are the best choices, due to lore selection. There is no point in taking a level 4 chicken for the sake of taking. It's no better at casting than the rest of them and gets lore choices that synergise with the army far worse, as a whole.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
No. The level 4 on the chicken ...

Dude. You wrote "kipper" and then talked about Gateway, I was having a poke

There is no point in taking a level 4 chicken for the sake of taking. It's no better at casting than the rest of them and gets lore choices that synergise with the army far worse, as a whole.

IF you run pure Tzeentch, a level 4 chicken is the better of only two ways to get above a level 2 wizard. Sometimes that's useful in its own right - you know, for dispelling and stuff. I agree that four levels of METAL isn't very useful, nor is it smart on such an expensive model - I run 2x level 2 on METAL, which gets me the nuke spells but on 125 point bodies that I don't care about having to miscast with. I have heard some arguments for a level 4 chicken on TIZZ magic, maximizing terrain and the fact that many of the lore's spells don't require LOS to cast, but I'm not sure I believe it vs a level 2 eternal bird just punching stuff.

- Salvage

Ok so how about this list?

LoC, lvl 4, exalted, lesser (tzeentch) 570

HoTz lvl 2, metal 125
HoTz lvl 2, metal 125

Pinks (10) Tzeentch 130
Pinks (10) Tzeentch 130
Plaguebearers (29) Full command 407

Beast of Nurgle 60
Beast of Nurgle 60
Screamers (3) 120
Screamers (3) 120

Plague Drones (3) Champ, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame 210
Plague Drones (3) Champ, Standard, Gleaming Pendant 205
Skull Cannon of Khorne 135

Better?

How do you keep the 2 heralds alive. Seems like they will just get punched to death and waste 250 points...

 Icelord wrote:
How do you keep the 2 heralds alive. Seems like they will just get punched to death and waste 250 points...

Hang out in the horrors, then prepare to bail and hang out behind them / near other infantry blocks once fighty things get close. And accept that they probably will die, either to miscasts or getting beat in their T3 faces. Such is the (un)life of the Tizz herald.

List works fine for me, though I'd swap the drone champs for musicians, which are far more useful in my book.

- Salvage

 Icelord wrote:
Ok so how about this list?

LoC, lvl 4, exalted, lesser (tzeentch) 570

HoTz lvl 2, metal 125
HoTz lvl 2, metal 125

Pinks (10) Tzeentch 130
Pinks (10) Tzeentch 130
Plaguebearers (29) Full command 407

Beast of Nurgle 60
Beast of Nurgle 60
Screamers (3) 120
Screamers (3) 120

Plague Drones (3) Champ, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame 210
Plague Drones (3) Champ, Standard, Gleaming Pendant 205
Skull Cannon of Khorne 135

Better?

How do you keep the 2 heralds alive. Seems like they will just get punched to death and waste 250 points...

Lists look good. If you're confident in how the pieces work, it'll work solidly.

As for the heralds, discs are a very good tool to keep them safe. Especially if a herald rolls Final T.

What would I cut for disks? Bearers?

 Icelord wrote:
What would I cut for disks? Bearers?

Champs and standards on the drones.

You don't like the flame standard?

 thedarkavenger wrote:
As for the heralds, discs are a very good tool to keep them safe. Especially if a herald rolls Final T.

I ran discs in the starting, and they did not keep my heralds safe. Quite the opposite actually, I usually lost them to single volleys (we're talking FIVE S3 shots) from units of fast cav. And that's including trying to use whatever terrain I was lucky to get to keep them alive. Bunkering them down, bailing and using 4+ LOS! rolls has served me far far better.

And as for Final Trans, the boosted version kicks the range up to 36", which is more than enough room to keep them away from the front lines. Searing Doom's 24" is another thing entirely, but about the only time I effectively cast Doom it's when I'm going six dice boosted, which means I've run out of the unit to avoid nuking it.

- Salvage

Ok we will try this then!

Ok so I played a game with the modified list from before and won. It was not a smashing victory but about 350 points.

I have to turn my list in for the GT in a few days and am looking to finalize it. What do you think:

LoC, lvl 4, exalted, lesser (tzeentch) 570

HoTz lvl 2, metal 125
HoTz lvl 2, metal 125

Pinks (10) Tzeentch 130
Pinks (10) Tzeentch 130
Plaguebearers (26) Full command 368

Flesh Hounds (5) Ambushers 165
Screamers (3) 120
Screamers (3) 120

Plague Drones (3) Champ, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame 210
Plague Drones (3) Champ, Standard, 200
Skull Cannon of Khorne 135

Can someone please explain to me how the 2 magic wepaons works? The exalted with the bonuses and the ASF sword. I don't see how I can get both benefits. Can I get a quote or something? I looking in the FAQ and didn't see anything about it.

Thanks to the FAQ regarding latent bonuses,of you have a weapon that grants a stat boost, the boosts are always in effect. You declare that you're picking the asf sword and the eternal blade still gives you the bonuses.

It's in the brb FAQ. Under models and units.