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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 22:14:53
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It states that a Brother Captain is needed to fulfil one of the requirements for the formation.
Can Brother -Captain Stern be that brother captain?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 22:19:49
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I believe he would as he is a Brother Captain.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 22:20:57
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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But you know how some rules lawyers are.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 22:22:49
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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If it doesn't specify Stern then no. Just like how Terminator Captains cannot take command squads in SM.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 22:24:15
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Its right in his title. Brother-Captain Stern.
Its even hyphenated like the Brother-captain entry.
If they say he isn't a Brother-captain, tell them he actually isn't Brother-captain Stern either, since obviously his name means nothing.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 22:25:42
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Surely it would specify him if he could... You know, like in every other codex...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 23:15:08
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Castellan Crowe would not be a legal choice for the Brotherhood Champion requirement, even though he is obviously the named variant of the Brotherhood Champion. This is an obvious parallel with Stern and the unnamed Brother-Captain. "Brother-Captain Stern" is not the same thing as "Brother-Captain," just like "Castellan Crowe" is not the same thing as "Brotherhood Champion."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/06 23:15:34
LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 23:23:13
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Lieutenant General
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Grey Templar wrote:Its right in his title. Brother-Captain Stern.
Its even hyphenated like the Brother-captain entry.
If they say he isn't a Brother-captain, tell them he actually isn't Brother-captain Stern either, since obviously his name means nothing.
By that logic an Assault Cannon is a 'Assault' weapon and a Heavy Flamer is a 'Heavy' weapon because the words 'assault' and 'heavy' are in their names.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/06 23:34:51
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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No, because titles are not where you find rules on weapon types. You find it in the weapon's profile under special rules.
As for Brother-captain, you find that in the entry's title.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 00:15:41
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Lieutenant General
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Grey Templar wrote:No, because titles are not where you find rules on weapon types. You find it in the weapon's profile under special rules.
As for Brother-captain, you find that in the entry's title.
And where does it say that titles are where you find whether or not a unit can be used as a substitute for a required Brother-Captain?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/07 00:17:12
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 00:49:52
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Well, given that there is nowhere else that tells us what the particular model is called then it must be the title.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 00:55:18
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Lieutenant General
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And you're trying to decide close is good enough, when the rules say otherwise. The rules say 'Brother-Captain', not something with the words 'brother' and 'captain' in its title.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 01:10:41
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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He is a Brother-captain. He's Brother-captain Stern. The fact he has a second name doesn't change the fact he has Brother-captain in his unit entry.
You will note every reference to him within the rules text says "Brother-captain Stern"
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 01:27:02
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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If it means anything, the formations in the Necron codex that require an "Overlord" have footnotes that state the named special character Overlords can also fulfill that requirement.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 01:32:45
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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GW is also known for not exactly being consistent in their rules language. Their books are filled with gaps or redundant wording.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 14:59:24
Subject: Re:Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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The Hive Mind
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Grey Templar wrote:Well, given that there is nowhere else that tells us what the particular model is called then it must be the title.
So Terminator Captains can take command squads?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 15:12:39
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
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The GK codex is a bit misleading. The Brother-Captain enter contains both the Brother-Captain and the Grand Master, yet the unit composition for both is "1 Brother-Captian" because a Grand Master is an upgraded Brother-Captian. And then on the facing page, Brother-Captain Stern is an obviously named-character Brother-Captain, who is listed as the Brother-Captain in the 3rd Brotherhood on both page 16 and 21. From this we can infer that Stern qualifies as a Brother-Captain with a Grey Knights Brotherhood formation. Using the same logic, Castellan Crowe is a named Brotherhood Champion, and Kaldor Draigo is a named Grand Master.
However, Crowe is listed the Champoint of the Order of Purifiers, not as a Brotherhood Champion of an actual Brotherhood, and Kaldor Draigo is the Supreme Grand Master, and not an actual Brotherhood Grand Master.
As such, I would say that Stern can be the Brother-Captain in a GKB formation if the GKB is the 3rd Brotherhood, while Crowe and Draigo cannot fulfill the Champ slot or GM slot in any GKB because they are not affiliated with any of the 8 Brotherhoods.
SJ
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“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 15:19:18
Subject: Grey Knight Brotherhood Formation
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Dispassionate Imperial Judge
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I think Stern should count, but rules-wise the precedent suggests otherwise.
For example, a Terminator Squad can take various versions of Land Raiders as Dedicated Transports. The usual format in the rules is to say: "May take a Land Raider, Land Raider Redeemer or Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport".
What the rules don't say is "May take a Land Raider" and assume that this includes Redeemers and Crusaders.
And, of course, in other Codexes the names characters have a statement that specifically says they count as the Overlord, etc...
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