How can you beat an unfair unbound army of Nids

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**sniperray213**

Hi. it feels like 2 years has past by since my last post of anything of particular. The reason of why I am posting this Topic today is that I had fought an opponent who was playing Nids. and my opponent and I agreed for an 1850 point battle and not an unfair unbound list against a competitive list.

In my opponents list, he had 5 Flying Hive Tyrants with Master Lvl 2(pysker), a broodmother, 2 carnifexes, a Zoneathrope and 2 nid models that give any nid model within 6 inches of another nid model a +2 cover save. The list was official illegal to play and I didn't agree to it. It was officially bs because I only agreed for only 1850 points. Nothing else. HE HAD NO TROOPS! I was playing Chaos Space Marines when this happened also. This was a Campaign battle also for the Shield of Baal planet called Vrax or something.

My list was a testing competitive actual 1850 list. No unbounding at all. This is my list:
Be'Lakor, terminater Sorcerer(Master lvl 3 with murder sword) No mark, a squad of thousand sons in a rhino with a havoc launcher(10 man squad), a 10 man CSM squad with 1 flamer and missile launcher, mark of slaanesh and icon of excess all with close combat weapons in a rhino with a havoc Launcher and the champion had a power sword. a Helbrute with thunder hammer and twin-linked heavy bolter, 2 Heldrakes and a 3 man squad of Bikers with mark of Nurgle and icon of vengeance, and 2 flamers and a Defiler.

Overall the battle was highly illegal due to the fact that I never agreed to the unbound list he fielded against me. And that I was learning how to use a Heldrake and a Helbrute because I am still learning other chaos models to play.

How can you kill an unbound and illegalize nid list like this that is always going to feth you in the ass and laugh at you unfairly. I want a Chaos Space Marine list that can go up against it and an Astra Militarium list also. Because I am officially unhappy with the unfair lost I was given today.

**sniperray213**

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Did you play the game? Then you agreed to his Unbound list. I don't actually see the point of complaining about that particular thing when you still got your models out and rolled dice. No one had a gun to your head. No one forced you to play the game in a way you didn't like. Unbound is legal and a thing now and it is up to you as a player to reject games like that.

Now, if he was cheating, that is a different story. At which point, again, you should have packed it in and moved on with your day. Venomthropes give Shrouded to Tyranid models, not units but specific models, within 6 inches of the Venomthrope, not of a bug by a bug by a Venomthrope. A... Broodmother? Tervigon I'm guessing. That can be a Troop choice but we've already determined the list was Unbound so that doesn't matter.

Five Flyrants are very strong. It is a model that can handle everything on the table reliably and five of them, legal even in Battleforged lists just to warn you, is an amazing offensive force. You need a) Skyfire or b) so many shots that SOME of them are Double 6s and you can ground it and Assault it, trapping it on the ground in a tarpit. Cultists actually work well with that but it takes two units of Cultists to make that happen. One with Autoguns and one to charge because Rapid Fire.

Other than that, modify your list to be more Competitive. No, I don't go to any competitive circuits because that's not how I enjoy the game, but even I know your list isn't competitive in the slightest. Defiler (can't target Flyers with Blasts), too few Bikes (can't target Flyers with Templates anyway), no Plague Marines, no Noise Marines (Ignores Cover Sonic Blasters so who cares about Shrouded with these), Thousand Sons a Terminator Sorcerer with no Terminators and a Terminator Sorcerer at all is still bad. What are you Invisible-ing or trying to do with your Psykers? I'm not seeing anything worth the Warp Charge points to buff here.

You would honestly do better with a full rewrite of your list. Only thing that should be kept are the Heldrakes but even they are poo against Nids. Flyrants are almost purpose built to shoot things in the butt and the Heldrake is only AV10 over it's vent. Not a chance in hell that it can take 11 shots (the average hits per Tyrant per turn) that only need 4s to strip it down. And if it does, well, there's plenty more.

I never officially agreed to the list. he had an actual 1850 list but he said tailoring like an ass and threw the unfair list at me. The Terminator Sorcerer was using Biomancy powers for buffs. and Be'lakor died without having a single power go off.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frozocrone wrote:
That list is perfectly legal - as others have stated Unbound is a real thing in 7th.

From what you described your list as, Battlescribe says you brought a 1900 list. If that's true, then the only illegal list was yours.

my list wast illegal. I wrote the entire list without battlescribe. just pen and paper and the codex

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AnomanderRake wrote:
He's playing a tournament list, you're playing CSM. Unbound doesn't really change the outcome.

my list was to go against his list that wasn't unbound. which makes it competitive. but no it was bs that he threw an ass move

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Also, shrouded confers to the whole unit if one model in the unit has it. In order to take down the flyrants, hit them with the heldrake's vector strike after they get airborne. Add a land raider, the devourere are useless against them. Your army was also unbound, since you stated the sorcerer has no marks. If you want to make your list more competitive, swap the thousand suns for a squad of cultists and a unit of pink horrors, then proxy the defiler for the chaos daemon version (name escapes me) that would give you front armor 13, and another sky fire option. If you ran this list, I think you could have made a game of it.

As it stands, you were both unbound and you my have actually had more than the legal point total. If I were the guy who played against you and happened to find this thread, I'd be exceptionally angry. Not only that you may have cheated, but your crappy attitude about a perfectly legal list beating you. I hope the tips are helpful, and that you can enjoy your future games with more sportsmanship.

Edited for stupid autocorrect

My list was not unbound. The reason I couldn't take a Mark is that if it was given a mark, only 1 power will have to go to that official mark while the rest of the powers go to a different table. That is how Sorcerers work. I didn't cheat. I couldn't do nothing at all against an unfair 5 tyrants with only 1 Demon Prince and 2 flyers. If I was using Vendettas, that would have been different. But no I made a list with 2 models that I didn't know gak about yet and I wanted to learn how to use that kind of model.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Drasius wrote:
Your list was unbound as well, since you only have 1 troop unit. Besides, as soon as you rolled dice against it, you agreed to play it. Not only that, as others have said, his list is not terribly far off being legal at all and is to be expected in competative circles.

As a side note, the only thing in your list that is remotely competative is belakor and the pair of heldrakes, everything else besides the nurgle bikers are the least competative trash of the entire codex (which is itself highly uncompetative).

Head on over to the army lists section and post up your collection of models so you can get some help writing a competative list.

When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list. The sorcerer was gonna have a mark of Tzeench but no. The guy had to be a total ass

**sniperray213**

kronk wrote:
sniperray213 wrote:

When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list.

Are you actually 21, Sniperaray213?

I have a hard time believing this is a legitimate thread or that you are as old as you say you are. I'm thinking 11, but that would insult the 11 year olds that post here from time to time. People are explaining to you, very calmly I might add, that the other player did not bring an "illegal list."

In this game, you can play unbound. You can also tailor your list, should you so desire, to defeat your opponent's normal list. You can also bring a "tournament competitive" list to a "friendly" game.

Here is the problem. You and your opponent did not seem to come to an agreement on the type of game you want to play. In the future, you should agree before hand on the type of game to play. If the other person shows up with a list that does not meet the specified agreement, then don't play.

It's that simple.

In this case, you agreed to play the game, so stop griping. Next time, just say no. But do it politely.

I am 21

**sniperray213**

Drasius wrote:
sniperray213 wrote:
I never officially agreed to the list. he had an actual 1850 list but he said tailoring like an ass and threw the unfair list at me. The Terminator Sorcerer was using Biomancy powers for buffs. and Be'lakor died without having a single power go off.

1st, you need to understand that as soon as you roll dice against someone on T1, you've agreed to their list, otherwise you wouldn't have played. If you see someone put stuff on the table you don't want to play, inform them of that (as politely as you can manage) and decline the game or come to an agreement on alternate lists.

Frozocrone wrote:
From what you described your list as, Battlescribe says you brought a 1900 list. If that's true, then the only illegal list was yours.

sniperray213 wrote:
my list wast illegal. I wrote the entire list without battlescribe. just pen and paper and the codex

It was not legal (over the agreed points limit) and unbound (only 1 troop). You might want to check your codex mate;
HQ
350 - Be'lakor
170 - Sorc, ML3, Terminator armour, Murder Sword

Elite
110 - Helbrute, Thunderhammer, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter
312 - 10x Thousand Sons, Rhino w/ Havok Launcher

Troops
270 - 10x CSM w/ CCW & BP, ML, Flamer, Mark of Slaneesh, Icon of Excess, Rhino w/ Havok Launcher, Power Sword

Fast Attack
123 - 3x Bikers of Nurgle, 2x Flamers, Icon of Vengence, Mark of Nurgle
170 - Heldrake
170 - Heldrake

Heavy Support
195 - Defiler

1870 total and only 1 troops choice (Thousand Sons are elites unless your primary detatchment includes a sorceror with mark of Tzeentch, which yours doesn't). if I had to guess, you forgot to give your CSM the Mark of Slaneesh, they can't take the Icon of Excess if they don't have it.

sniperray213 wrote:
my list was to go against his list that wasn't unbound. which makes it competitive. but no it was bs that he threw an ass move

Obligatory Princess Bride quote. Competative means you have an answer for most lists or have skewed your list to the point where your opponents don't or can't have an answer for what you put on the table. 5 flyrants is an example of that, your army is not. If you meant casual or friendly, then your list barely qualifies there as belakor and a pair of drakes isn't exactly casual. What would you have said if you played foot marines with no skyfire and your 'drakes flew around killing his entire army and he had no way to stop it hmmm?

sniperray213 wrote:
My list was not unbound. The reason I couldn't take a Mark is that if it was given a mark, only 1 power will have to go to that official mark while the rest of the powers go to a different table. That is how Sorcerers work. I didn't cheat. I couldn't do nothing at all against an unfair 5 tyrants with only 1 Demon Prince and 2 flyers. If I was using Vendettas, that would have been different. But no I made a list with 2 models that I didn't know gak about yet and I wanted to learn how to use that kind of model.

Yes, it was unbound, we have already established that. If you want to take a mark, yes, you have to roll at least once on that gods table (or twice for lvl 3's, but nobody ever does since the powers are all worse than the main rule book powers) and the remainder can go on Bio/Tele/Pyro/Sanctic/Maelific. That's the hidden price you pay for taking a mark on a sorceror. The rest of us shrug at our crappy codex and deal with it. You did cheat since you brought more than 1850 points to a 1850 game. It might not have been intentional, but you did have an unfair advantage by taking more points than you opponent. If there was nothing you could have done (there wasn't), decline the game as you won't be having fun. If you're looking to learn how to use a model, explain that to your opponent and come to an agreement.

sniperray213 wrote:
When I made the list, it was suppose to be competitive till he said gak stuff. which made it unfair to me. and I agreed to only an 1850 list and not a feth you in the ass list. The sorcerer was gonna have a mark of Tzeench but no. The guy had to be a total ass

We've already touched on the "competative" bit, as well as the "unfair" bit. I'm still not sure why you didn't give your sorceror the mark of Tzeentch, though I'm not sure why you took him at all in the first place. He can't be attached to anyone without forcing your thousand sons out of their rhino and is easy first blood on his own. Defilers are bad, as battlecannons are poor and force the remaining weapons to snapfire if it fires and the front and side armour are low for a 200 point unit. Thousand Sons are terrible as they are incredibly expensive and cover is easy to get, negating their AP3 bolters and they die to small arms fire exactly the same as normal marines whicle costing almost twice as much. You've way overspent on your CSM, 10 guys, 2 plasma guns, a melta bomb on the sarge and a bare bones rhino. 210 points. Done. You spent 25 points on an icon for 3 guys who only cost 98 points, that's crazy. Helbrutes are terrible outside of their formations, and taking a TL heavy bolter instead of a melta gun is madness, let alone actually paying points to do so. Havok launchers have their place, but you have to know when, and your list certainly isn't one of them. Only having a single heavy support in an 1850 chaos list is crazy. Oblits are a great choice and would have given you at least some sort of makeshift AA along with a forgefiend (where his crappy BS doesn't matter since he's hitting on 6's anyway)

If I had to guess, I'd say you aimed your list at killing masses of infantry, expecting gaunts (and also able to kill guard from your original post) and was surprised to see that 'Nids went flier heavy. Just so you know, you'd have been in trouble against MC heavy nids as well. At the end of the day, you stacking up on blasts, templates and mid/low strength weapons worked against you as your opponent guessed correctly what you were going to do and built his army to take out yours. It's common knowledge that CSM have virtually no AA, so it was a smart move on his part if he only wanted to win, but as someone who runs Thousand Sons myself, there's no way in hell I'd agree to play against his list anywhere bar a tournament (where I wouldn't be taking TSons).

Edit: coz eye are knot gud spelar

Actually, Looking at the OP's list, his opponent is short on points, and I can make a battle forged list for the 'Nids to get to 1845 with the addition of spores.

Leviathan #1
230 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs
230 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs
195 - Tervigon

15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore

45 - Venomthrope
45 - Venomthrope
50 - Zoanthrope

120 - Carnifex
120 - Carnifex

Leviathan #2
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs
240 - Flyrant, 2x TL Devs, E-Grubs

15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore

1845

don't fakin tell me to look at my codex dude. and besides I could have split the 10 man csm into 2 5 man squads. im not faking dumb

**sniperray213**

koooaei wrote:
Some sort of csm combat squads, eh?

Anywayz, you've missed another important part of the game. Missions. Flyrants are killy and stuff but they need to land to cap objectives.

And technically, he had a bound army

15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore

15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore
15 - Mucolid spore

See, 6 troop choices. No unbound at all.

It's also hilarious how you accused him of cheating and bringing an unfair unbound army whereas his army's battleforged and your's illegal (>1850 pts) AND unbound.
Yep, the nid's army is very competitive - tournament level competitive. Spamming the best model in the codex.

the mission was malestorm and I hate those missions because their just hard to play in genenral

**sniperray213**

text removed.

Reds8n

**sniperray213**

Fragile wrote:
Sounds like a serious issue. I suggest getting a good picture of your army. Then put it on ebay.

If you don't have anything nice to say, then never comment at all.

Edited by RiTides - Rule #1 on Dakka is "be polite"