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I was thinking about how to reinvent the x-wing wheel for other scifi games that also involve ground combat when it occurred to me that another company had already done something similar already albeit for a fantasy setting. I was wondering what folks who have played the game thought about the interaction between melee and ranged combat and ground and air combat using the flight path rules. I had planned on using robotech figs in an urban setting with this as well as possibly a skirmish scale (kill team sized) 40k variant. I've never played the game and my only experience is watching a few youtube videos as well as downloading the free legal rules off of the wizkids site. It seems like units from my reading that are capable of both ground and air combat have different dials for each depending on which you declare but I didn't see (from my limited stat card search) different attack stats based on ranged or melee combat (for instance, a 40k assault marine might have a 3 attack melee stat but only 2 dice ranged attack stat).

I very much enjoy the way the system incorporates both ground and air units. I'm not sure it would translate well past a fantasy/medieval setting, though. Industrial age+ technology would create speed differences that can be hard to scale appropriately.

Having said that, D&DAW breaks the game down into two play levels: flying and ground. Ranged attacks can be made between them freely, but melee attacks can only be made against figures on the same play level.

After you move a flying creature, you get a free chance to change your play level by landing or staying in the air flying. If you stay flying, you can opt to Swoop, which is a special condition while flying that allows that figure to make melee attacks against all figures, whether flying or on the ground, but also allows all figures to attack the Swooping figure.

Every creature that can fly comes with a second movement card for planning moves while on the ground. If that card is different from the card used while flying, the figure will come with a Ground movement dial as well. Dragons, for instance, are very agile while flying, but grounded tend to be very limited and greatly reduced in speed. Other figures are better on the ground than in the air, and in the case of the Wraith, they use the same dial whether flying or walking.

Many figures, especially ground-only figures, will have both melee and ranged attack options. These attacks typically use the same attack value, but the range may be different. The Sun Elf Archers, for instance, have a range 1 spear melee attack, but a range 4 ranged bow attack. Both use the troops current attack value.

Ground attacks may also need to deal with intervening figures or terrain making attacks more difficult, which flying figures do not have to deal with.

Flyers also have a movement edge over walkers. In addition to generally being faster, although likely less able to turn sharply, flyers have the option to move over and through ground units that they would overlap at the end of the maneuver, instead of always stopping short of the overlapped figure.

Such a system might work for gerwalk forms in a game like Robotech, but the speeds necessary for straight flight by fighter mode veritechs would probably not scale well in a system that needs to include ground-only figures. But for jet packs and other slow-moving flyers, I think it works great.

Agreed. Flightpath is designed for, and works well for, dogfighting flyers. Ground movement feels more....shoehorned in, to my taste.

I don't think the type of movement matters, but the relative speeds do. With wing-flapping flying creatures, the relative speed difference compared to boots on the ground walking/running creatures can be accurately represented by the flight path...or any other...system. Take that system into any sort of propulsion flying system, that relies on physics and lift etc. for flight, and you'd have a game where the flying figure would make one pass, and then take 10 more turns to come around for another pass. The system just doesn't scale up very well once you get past a certain speed.

kingbobb wrote:

Such a system might work for gerwalk forms in a game like Robotech, but the speeds necessary for straight flight by fighter mode veritechs would probably not scale well in a system that needs to include ground-only figures. But for jet packs and other slow-moving flyers, I think it works great.

Thanks for the overview. I admit that I hadn't really given that part much thought. When reading the rules, I had just lumped in jet mode as flying, guardian as swooping, and battloid as ground for robotech without thinking about the actual speed of the models relative to ground pounders. In the 40k skirmish ideas I'd been throwing around, I don't think it is as much of an issue as the scale and feel of the flight path rules made me think that it would be best for low model count skirmish games only (so no big vehicles or god forbid fliers). I think the rules still work for moderately fast things like jet and jump packers though.


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locarno24 wrote:
Agreed. Flightpath is designed for, and works well for, dogfighting flyers. Ground movement feels more....shoehorned in, to my taste.

How do they handle the squads of guys? I might have missed that in my skimming the rules but I did see at my FLGS that the infantry is frequently packed in larger numbers (like 6 to a box) and deployed in fantasy style formations. That obviously wouldn't work well in a scifi setting though. How does DDAW handle the squads? Does each fig attack individually or is it abstracted somewhat?

It's abstracted. A nominated "point soldier" moves and is used for arcs of fire, with stats dependent on the number of other soldiers in the troop.

After each move, the rest of the troop forms up in formation around him - this is largely irrelevant save for 'line formation' or 'wedge formation' (or similar) being upgrades which require your other troops to be in such and such a formation relative to the point man to gain a particular bonus.

I don't know if I'd say it's abstracted, so much as different from the way other games typically deal with troops.

The most abstracted element is using the point troop/leader for attacking. Where other games would assign the ability to attack to each figure, DADAW uses the point troop as the only figure from which the troop can attack. So you use that figure's attack arc. But the PWV is determined by the number of troops remaining, and in the case of the Elf Leader upgrade, the troop could actually be fighting above that PWV.

Movement I'd say captures a troops ability to reform on the fly, something not every game system manages to do well. And instead of forcing a measured move for every figure, it just again uses the Point Troop for the movement template, then forming the rest of the figures into a legal formation around the point troop.

Which is actually where I'd say the troop's most tactical decisions come into play. Your formation is going to be the troops best defensive response to the enemy. You don't want to cluster up line-abreast if facing cone/burst attacks, and you won't want to use a line formation when facing line attacks. You can shield your point troop from ground attacks using side figures, since a troop can lose extra figures when the point troop is defeated.

I think superficially the troop rules look simple, but after playing with them a number of time, I find them fairly deep and satisfying.

Thanks for the clarifications. It does explain the movements I was seeing for some block infantry in one youtube video. It seems like the system may be more complicated to convert to scifi then I initially considered. I do hope to try it though sometime soon as there is one acquaintence I know who bought into it.

I'll be honest, the one version which would work well for a flightpath game is a tank-on-tank combat. Obstacle heavy boards, and you'd need to have rules for armour being arc-of-fire dependent, but I think it should work quite nicely.