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I apologize if others have already covered this... but...

I'm looking at giving my Boyz 'eavy armor to give them an actual save and possibly help with moral.
Question - is it worth it.

I could have 2 squads of 25 boyz with 'eavy Armor, Nob, 'Uge Choppa and Rokkits for about the same cost (± 5 points) as three squads of boyz with only a T-shirt, Nob, 'Uge Choppa and Rokkits.

My inclination is to give them armor and make them a durable force...

I generally dont use 'eavy armor. Lot of people swear by it for trukkboyz but i dont even bother with that much.

Reason being that makes the boys 10pts each, which removes their super cheap quality for what they do and tbh they arent THAT much more durable. 4+ armor isnt that awesome, as really all it blocks is infantry weapons since theyre all AP5/6. Any remotely bigger gun will have AP4 or better, and almost every anti-horde tactic involves AP4 weapons.

Biggest difference would be melee since its quite rare for non-elites or boss guys to have weapons with a notable AP value in melee. But how many boyz are you sacrificing to get the armor? Alot, since 2 units of 20boyz = 160pts for 'Eavy armor upgrades alone, which equates to another unit of 20 + nob w/ klaw/bp (roughly).

Could also depend on meta i guess. I play Tau more than Orks mostly because i shelved my orks for so long waiting for the new dex that hardly any of them are painted while majority of my tau are finished. My firewarriors have 4+ armor stock, and i rarely get to use it except against troop junk. Not uncommon for my entire firewarrior squad to vanish into thin air because some Autocannons decided to look at them or some other high rate of fire AP4 gun.

Thank you. Good advice with numbers and personal experience to back it up.

It does depend a lot on your meta and how you want to play them. I've had luck with them in trukkz, especially when said trukkz blow sky high. More boyz survive and that means there's more to get in combat.

But they are also nice to use as cheap as possible. 10 boyz, no upgrades but the Nob with bp and pk.

Try playing them both ways, see what you like.

I'm sticking with 'eavy armored truckboyz. It gives them a direct increase in survivability which is quite notisable in mellee and can be a difference bettween win and loss as the squad's quite small and you do want to squeeze as much out of them as possible. Don't forget that the fewer boyz go down in a fight - the more you chop back and the more chances you have to actually win a fight. Another great thing is 4+ armore for nob.

While i'd not spend points on 'eavy armor for footsloggas, boyz that ride in vehicles make good use of it from my experience. So far i'm really happy with how they perform.

Even if the enemy packs ap4 guns, 'eavy armor still helps you out in mellee, against explosions and mob rule which is ~50% of their total casualties anywayz

I agree.

Most people are caught by surprise when your boyz actually get a save. The expectation is they can whittle them down with bolter and flamer fire fairly easily. Stick the Mad Dok or a pain boy in a large mob of them and watch their frustration mount.

I use 'Eavy Armour extensively. It may be more expensive, but try it in a game against an army like Tau, and then try playing Tau without it. You'll have less bodies on the table, but you'll suffer much less casualties... by a large margin. As in, every single shot would otherwise be unsaved, and an army like Tau throw an inordinate amount of shots at you to the point where not even all the extra Boyz you could have had would have done a whole lot of good other than drop midway up the field and kill your morale.

As others have said, I personally invest in the armor for my Trukker Boyz. Yes, it makes them a bit more expensive, but when it comes to the smaller squad, you want to keep them around as long as possible to compensate for their lack of numbers. The armor will allow for more survivals when the truck inevitably explodes, and will keep more alive during the ensuring Mob Rule checks. You need every one of those 12 models to last and be a threat for as long as possible.

In larger mobs, I don't bother. You have vast numbers to make up for the lack of armor. And in most cases, you have the Painboy in there to give them a 5+ FNP, which is cheaper and more useful than armor overall. You pay 50pts to give up to 30 Boyz a save that will be incredibly hard for your opponent to negate, unlike 4+ armor that is super easy to negate.

Armor on small squads, Painboy for large squads.

Painboy + 20-30 boyz is hilarious. Even without the armor. They need S8 to remove that fnp which tbh if your opponent shoots S8 at BOYZ then either you already lost or he/she is an idiot cause theres bound to be much more deadly things to fire at.

Only issue is HQ slot, which is the universal problem for orks this codex i feel. Ive been running the ork specific FoC purely for that 3rd HQ more than anything else (dont get me wrong the 10+ models HoW if i roll a 10"+ charge has proven pretty strong for me in the past) because i will ALWAYS have a painboy following my Warboss around...just stupid to not do that lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Painboy + 20-30 boyz is hilarious. Even without the armor. They need S8 to remove that fnp which tbh if your opponent shoots S8 at BOYZ then either you already lost or he/she is an idiot cause theres bound to be much more deadly things to fire at.

Only issue is HQ slot, which is the universal problem for orks this codex i feel. Ive been running the ork specific FoC purely for that 3rd HQ more than anything else (dont get me wrong the 10+ models HoW if i roll a 10"+ charge has proven pretty strong for me in the past) because i will ALWAYS have a painboy following my Warboss around...just stupid to not do that lol.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure it was a universal groan of pain (HA!) when we saw Painboys shift to the HQ slot and not becoming a slotless choice. Our primary HQ options are almost mandatory to get the most out of our numbers. Warbosses and Painboys are such a deadly combination, and even Big Mek with Painboys and KFF can provide troublesome to remove units. I usually have to bring multiple charts to ensure I've enough HQ support for my blobs, or enough Big Mek support for my Walker lists. D:

Lots of great discussion!

@ Vineherat01 : That had been my intention. Squads of 25 Boyz with a pain boy. The armor I am debating for extra protection. So many people are used to Orks being a glass cannon that I think it would be awesome to have a 4+ armor and a 5+ FNP.

I may try it out just to see how it goes.

Why not 30?

I think the best answer is to try running it yourself and see what you like. Personally, I liked it when I ran green tide (in 5th). This was back when only one squad could get it. I generally put a screen of grots out front, a mob of 30 eavy armor boys with the Mad Dok second, backed up by 2-3 more mobs of 30 boys.

Opponents would get frustrated with this mob of boys (that could actually make saves) that was barrelling down at them. All of their fire would go into this one unit. Meanwhile, the other 60-90 boys would pass unmolested down the field. It can work. It just depends on your playstyle.

I agree that 'eavy armour should be taken for sluggas in trukks on the basis that there is more to this question than mere points efficiency.

Trukk boyz can't have more than 12 Orks in the squad, so simply adding more boyz to absorb casualties isn't a viable option. You must therefore make the most of the small size and maximise the number of boyz who get to hit. The squad is small enough for a loss of two or three boyz to enemy overwatch and melee attacks to make a real difference, which then places too much reliance on the nob to do the damage. Then you've got exploding transports and mob rule to contend with.

Personally I don't bother with armour for my wagon boyz, but I can see the merits.

Want to really annoy some one.

Put a kff and a painboy with a large mob of boyz. A 5++ followed by a fnp, is really frustrating for opponents.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Want to really annoy some one.

Put a kff and a painboy with a large mob of boyz. A 5++ followed by a fnp, is really frustrating for opponents.

Why stop at a regular KFF ?

Why not the MFF ?

The Imperial Answer wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Want to really annoy some one.

Put a kff and a painboy with a large mob of boyz. A 5++ followed by a fnp, is really frustrating for opponents.

Why stop at a regular KFF ?

Why not the MFF ?

Why stop at the MFF?

Also take a weird boy, roll for Santic powers, get sanctuary for the +1 to invul. Now you have a mob with a 3++ and fnp.

Why stop at 3++ and FNP? Get void shield generator!

Running a weirdboy in a unit with a painboy isnt a bad idea since now he has FNP to back up those Peril tests that you are bound to roll like crazy on when you try to get that +1 invul or +2 strength for that mob.

I messed around with that when the new FAQ came with the old dex. Grotsnik + 30 Cyborked boyz + Weirdboy with Sanctic powers. That was hilarious, though a little pricy. Also was using previous dex so kinda irrelevant i guess lol

 koooaei wrote:
Why stop at 3++ and FNP? Get void shield generator!

Stompa on a landing pad bublewrapped by Grots the opponent can't see or assault and are fearless.