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What's this I keep hearing about a Manus revival theory? I can't find anything halfway decent on it.

If it's further fantasy-land crap, I'll be disappointed. If it's a neat bit of speculation, that would be a fair enough reward.



But honestly, who can tell me the proper theory and if it's garbage or not?

Sources? Heard nothing on this.

Happens in

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/imperfect-ebook.html

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Happens in

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/imperfect-ebook.html

It will be a cold day when BL gets $4 from me for 20 pages.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Sources? Heard nothing on this.

Pilau provided an ebook(sweet man he is), but I'm specifically requesting sources and information. Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking.

Apparently



I think something is in the Legacies of Betrayal book as well.

I shall start my hunt there, good Pilau!

Also, part of Ferrus Manus' rage became part of a Keeper of Secrets that was born upon his death.

The only thing the story is supposed to show is that Fabius Bile has been working on cloning primarchs for awhile, as a lead up to the events of Talon of Horus.

jareddm wrote:
The only thing the story is supposed to show is that Fabius Bile has been working on cloning primarchs for awhile, as a lead up to the events of Talon of Horus.

Thanks guys. I have some solid information to dismiss this BS of a Mechanicum cyborg Ferrus that some wild child is flinging at the local GW.

To be honest, that doesn't even sound like good story-telling. To me, it was Manus's death that galvanized the tenth into what they are. Bringing him back is the sort of Dragonball Z-ish comical lack of permanence that is best avoided in a story.

 Shidank wrote:

jareddm wrote:
The only thing the story is supposed to show is that Fabius Bile has been working on cloning primarchs for awhile, as a lead up to the events of Talon of Horus.

Thanks guys. I have some solid information to dismiss this BS of a Mechanicum cyborg Ferrus that some wild child is flinging at the local GW.

To be honest, that doesn't even sound like good story-telling. To me, it was Manus's death that galvanized the tenth into what they are. Bringing him back is the sort of Dragonball Z-ish comical lack of permanence that is best avoided in a story.

yeah, there's no cyborging going on here, the guy had his head chopped off.

no I heard some cyborg rubbish about him having been recovered and returned to mars. just a imperial legend though

What I have read was on 40k wiki and basically stated that there were rumors that Ferrus' body was recovered following isstvan 5 and that it was brought to the mechanicum on mars, a theory which the iron hands themselves strongly refute.

My personal theory, although biased as an iron hands player, is that some part of ferrus' soul or essence so to speak was absorbed by the living metal present on his hands. This somewhat helps validate the visions which the members of the iron hands often witness of their primarch in some of the novels.

I often entetain the thought from Fulgrim novel:

Clockwork Iron wrote:
What I have read was on 40k wiki and basically stated that there were rumors that Ferrus' body was recovered following isstvan 5 and that it was brought to the mechanicum on mars, a theory which the iron hands themselves strongly refute.

My personal theory, although biased as an iron hands player, is that some part of ferrus' soul or essence so to speak was absorbed by the living metal present on his hands. This somewhat helps validate the visions which the members of the iron hands often witness of their primarch in some of the novels.

I'm an IH player too and I thought of the same thing - that his psyche was actually 'saved to disk' on his hands. Looking at him as really dead is sort of lacking the sense of what metal'itis in warhammer really means/does. The thing is, his infection wasn't just on his hands, it caused his eyes to change, so it's not something we can wave off as unrelated & isolated.

Also, the closest examples in warhammer that we have with metal like infections relate to Living Metal and/or Halo Devices. Here's are some excerpts from lexicanum:

Livng Metal:

"The Necrontyr originally invented living metal for use in constructing their ships. It is most often associated with the skin of the C'tan as well as the bodies of the Necrons and their amazing regenerative abilities.[1b]
The hull of all Necron vehicles, including the Necron Monolith and the Necron Pylon, is also made of this living metal, where its adaptive and regerative capabilities render powerful weapons such as Meltaguns, Multi-meltas and Power Fists almost obsolete."

Halo Devices:

"Once bonded with the device, the user rejuvenates so that they are in the peak of their youth and health. Any physical diseases, deformities, minor mutations, or other long-term medical conditions that they were suffering from are negated. Any part of the user's body that has been lost re-grows during this phase (albeit slowly and painfully), their senses become superbly attuned, they move with an unnatural grace, and they shrug off all but the most grievous wounds. Even as their body changes, the user's mind has begun to slowly crumble and one by one the pleasures they had in life, begin to lose their luster. Paranoia and violent mood swings set in and they begin to hear strange voices that whisper to them in the dark. As time progresses, they learn that they no longer require sleep, except for a few comatose hours every few days during which they suffer vivid nightmares of alien vistas and strange cities beneath mysterious stars.[1]

.........

The user also finds that they have memories of strange alien civilizations, languages, and scripts meshing with their own and may lose large chunks of their own memories. If the user is killed during this period and their body is not destroyed (burned to ash, dismembered, etc.) and the Halo Device is still attached to their corpse, there is a chance that their body will repair itself and re-animate. This resurrection drives the user irrevocably insane, and they immediately progress to the tertiary phase. "

'Living Metal' 40k Lexicanum - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Living_metal

'Halo Devices' 40k Lexicanum - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Halo_Devices

Halo devices are generally very dangerous to use. However, a primarch may just be an exception when it comes to its influence - primarchs seem to have a lot of willpower...

Even with the aforementioned, I generally regard him as dead Tragedy makes for a better story, particularly in this case.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Also, part of Ferrus Manus' rage became part of a Keeper of Secrets that was born upon his death.

That's interesting. Where is this from? How would that have come about?

The quote on Cyborg Ferrus is from the actual IA Astartes article on the Iron Hands

The body of Ferrus was never found, however, and many believe he somehow survived. One particular story is that his wrecked body was rescued and restored, and that he took refuge on Mars where he resides still, though this is violently refuted by the Iron Hands themselves.

And from the Black Templars IA

Dorn would not relent, and neither would Guilleman, Leman Russ of the Space Wolves and Vulkan of the Salamanders agreed with Dorn for they too did not want their Legions scattered to the corners of the galaxy, but Ferrus Mannus, Primarch of the Iron Hands and Corax of the Raven Guard backed the Ultramarines.

I'm guessing that Fulgrim was able to get the head of Ferrus off of Horus somehow, perhaps it was part of the bargaining chip for the battle of Molech as Horus has it with him in a box.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Also, part of Ferrus Manus' rage became part of a Keeper of Secrets that was born upon his death.

That's interesting. Where is this from? How would that have come about?

The quote on Cyborg Ferrus is from the actual IA Astartes article on the Iron Hands

The body of Ferrus was never found, however, and many believe he somehow survived. One particular story is that his wrecked body was rescued and restored, and that he took refuge on Mars where he resides still, though this is violently refuted by the Iron Hands themselves.

And from the Black Templars IA

Dorn would not relent, and neither would Guilleman, Leman Russ of the Space Wolves and Vulkan of the Salamanders agreed with Dorn for they too did not want their Legions scattered to the corners of the galaxy, but Ferrus Mannus, Primarch of the Iron Hands and Corax of the Raven Guard backed the Ultramarines.

I'm guessing that Fulgrim was able to get the head of Ferrus off of Horus somehow, perhaps it was part of the bargaining chip for the battle of Molech as Horus has it with him in a box.

It's from the terribly written Iron Hands supplement by Matt Ward.

Ahh, that would explain it then, cheers Wyzilla

It's called the Sapphire King apparently

This is from C:SM (eBook version, so I don't have a page number):

"The Iron Hands refused to accept the fact of their Primarch’s death, choosing instead to believe that he had somehow escaped Isstvan V and would one day return."

The sapphire king and basically all of the fluff in clan raukann is generally ignored and considered terrible by most iron hands players.

It takes away almost all of the unique aspects of the iron hands and is poorly written, especially all of the sapphire king nonsense.

Clockwork Iron wrote:
The sapphire king and basically all of the fluff in clan raukann is generally ignored and considered terrible by most iron hands players.

It takes away almost all of the unique aspects of the iron hands and is poorly written, especially all of the sapphire king nonsense.

I'd like to sled-dog you down to my local shop so that you can, in one 360 degree spin, slap everyone in the room.

 Shidank wrote:

Clockwork Iron wrote:
The sapphire king and basically all of the fluff in clan raukann is generally ignored and considered terrible by most iron hands players.

It takes away almost all of the unique aspects of the iron hands and is poorly written, especially all of the sapphire king nonsense.

I'd like to sled-dog you down to my local shop so that you can, in one 360 degree spin, slap everyone in the room.

Lol as someone who has read every single tiny bit of fluff on the iron hands back in 5th Ed, and played them when the only mention they had of note in the vanilla codex was a quote from their "chapter master", a rank the iron hands do not have, I take fluff concerning them very highly!

If it matters, when asked during a Forgeworld seminar about the possibility of Ferrus's survival and/or appearance in later HH campaign books, one of the devs said his idea for a headless mechanical zombie Ferrus was shot down.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
If it matters, when asked during a Forgeworld seminar about the possibility of Ferrus's survival and/or appearance in later HH campaign books, one of the devs said his idea for a headless mechanical zombie Ferrus was shot down.

What really?! Well that sucks...

I love the IH, but their silly belief in their Primarch somehow being alive or in stasis is their greatest weakness, however I feel this only adds to their appeal.

I prefer to think my Chapter, the Sons of Medusa, have moved past that loss.

I thought it was khan and corax that supported guilliman?

Guess someone didn't do a fact check on the IA side of things...

But yeah, My only disappointment about Ferrus Manus' death is that his model doesn't come with head popping action.