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We had our RIF 3 yesterday and I chose NOT to take Borg - I regretted my choice.

3 of our 6 attendees had Borg fleets, including the top 2 placed finishes. My Romulans came 3rd.

Overall it now means that after 9 OPs we've had 6 wins for Borg fleets. And two of the 3 non-Borg wins were from before the release of the Borg!

Some of my group are calling for a Borg ban, others think there's no problem (in spite of the evidence!) so it looks like we'll compromise and play the Nebula sector condition at all times as a handicap



Playing against them is just so frustrating when they hold all the aces

There really should be some form of permanent rule from WK to hobble the bloody borg once and for all. They are woefully undercosted and an established rule for all pure borg ships to put a dampener on them seems to be necessary.

It's almost as if they want you to buy more miniatures or something..

I just don't get what they were thinking.

DS9 - 360 arc - range 1-2
Enterprise D - 360 arc - range 1-2 at -1AD
Voyager - 360 arc - range 1-2 and an aux token
Dorsal Phaser Array - 360 arc - range 1-2
Dorsal Weapons Array - 360 arc - range 1-3 but disables and only 3 AD

Yet they give the Borg with 6+ dice a 360 range 1-3.

And in previews Andrew Parks said Borg movement would be predictable. Yep, it's predictable that they will move out of my arcs because they can move in any of four directions. Every other ship can move ahead and slightly left or slightly right. A few tricksy ships can move backwards.
Having unfettered movement in any of 4 directions is not predictable

The thing that I don't like about the Nebula sector is that it hurts photons even more than before. When it works, pulling off a rear torpedo shot is very rewarding

I have seen a number of people around the web that say that their local store banned the borg and attendance picked up because of it. I saw one guy On BGG say his store just banned all 360 attacks that were not part of a ship ability. Basically just allowing Voyager and the big D, no dorsay whatevers, no borg shapes. I'm not against a ban, lots of games have bans or restrictions, attack wing should be no different. Designers don't always get things right so gaming communities and TOs have to balance it out.

One idea we kicked around at one of my local stores was limiting all primary weapons to range 1-2. It helps curb the borg ang makes photos worth it to everyone. Still needs some play testing though.

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
It's almost as if they want you to buy more miniatures or something..

Except that's not how things work out. As it stands, people who win are just buying a couple of spheres or a cube and a sphere, obtaining the cards they need and then they're done spending money...

If the borg were hamstrung somehow you'd have an evolving arms race from people using all the other ships to work out meta and that meta would shift with each new release. As it is, they have a huge range of ships and a couple of purchases are all you need to go to the head of the class, that isn't even good business sense. Neutering the borg benefits everyone, players and WKs.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
no dorsay whatevers

Wow really, I feel if you pay for it's all ok. DPA 6 points on a ENT-E and Generic thats a large chunk of change, 6 points can make a difference with how you min/max the rest of your fleet. As for DWA it's almost needed if your playing Keldons and Galors




How about this for all ships including ENT-D and Voyger: If Primary Weapon is shot outside normal forward fire arc its range is 1-2 and is considered a secondary weapon (no bonus dice).


Borg have 90 forward fire arc


Hull Armor: Limit one per ship

Assimulation Tubes: Range 1 only!

Feedback Pulse: All Critical damge is converted to Hits. Half damage is assigned to your ship and ship dealing the damage rounding down. reduce cost to 6 points Or keep it as it is and cost is increased to 10


Movement:

Octohedron change following to red: Forward 4, Left/Right 3, backwards 2 also lose side movement 4

Cube change the following to red: Forward 4, Left/Right 3, backwards 1 also lose side movement 4

Sphere change the following to red: Forward 4, Left/Right 3, backwards 2 also Forward 3 to white

Scout change the following to red: Backwards 2 also change forward 4 to white and add forward 5 red...after all it's a SCOUT vessel

Depending on how Nationals go we may see some changes. The suggested format came out after the Borg all but swept Reginals. Nationals are April 11 in Maryland some if any changes are coming it could be out before the next story line OP starts, which I believe is The Q Continuum in May/June. I checked the rules for Nationals/Worlds and everything through wave 14 is allowed and all OP material through Peak Performance. So players will have access to some big nasties like Scimitar and Dominion Battle Cruisers, but if Borg are still sweeping than WK needs to address the issue.

Meangreen is right the Borg will hurt sales if not curtailed. They have no releases between now and next September so if all OP players need to still succeed is a couple cubes or spheres the other ships will not sell as well. Now granted I am sure casual players make up a good part of sales, but stores want impulse tournament prepping purchases to push sales even further. Stores couldn't keep stuff in stock during the Dominion War, now there is at least 1 of everything on the shelves.

+1 for Borg banning!

Nationals will see Borg in probably 9/10 lists. If they use the "Suggested Tournament Format": It'll just be a Sphere and Queen's Ship with minimal upgrades. It's really hard to gak a ship when it has nothing to gak! If I had to make a prediction, I'd say a non-Borg fleet will win- but it'll be a very good player with a lot of luck and a fleet specifically built to counter the Borg. The Borg players will all use this as some kind of evidence that the Borg really are balanced and OK and everyone else that doesn't play Borg just need to shut up and L2P.

That nebula card makes any ship that can cloak way too good at range 3. Consider the Scimitar with 2 agility dice, and cloaking at range 3: 8 defense dice? Other ships will get only 4-5? That Scimitar is still throwing 6 attack dice... more than enough to do a couple hits on shields before closing into knife fight range.

Tamwolf is right I imagine the field full of borg, especially since Nationals is using 120points and no blind. You know for 118 points you can take 2 spheres and a diamond. Even with generic captains what is going to beat that in a straight up fight? Who needs up grades with 18 dice a turn tones of hull and shields plus unlimited arcs. Even if someone brings fighters the 3 borg all shoot the fighters for 1turn and itnis then relatively ineffective for the rest of the game, leaving them free to butcher the rest of the opponent.

Personally I feel 120 without blinds is a mistake. 100 plus the suggested format limits fleets to one biggie and two supporters. 120 isnjust crazy when the borg are soo good.

either ban borg,

or just house rule it that all borg 360 arcs are range 2 and be done with it if people seriously want to play as borg.

If they complain, too bad, more people are not showing up because of borg then will not show up because they cant play as borg.

I don't like that Nebula hurts rear arcs (why exactly!?) as they were not a problem. I dislike that it penalises DWA

However it is the only official handicap to the Borg so far

The ball was really dropped from day 1 when they gave attack values of 5 from the get-go. IMO the attack dice should have capped out at 4 for primaries and if you wanted more attack dice you would take secondary weapons

 Tamwulf wrote:

Nationals will see Borg in probably 9/10 lists. If they use the "Suggested Tournament Format": It'll just be a Sphere and Queen's Ship with minimal upgrades. It's really hard to gak a ship when it has nothing to gak! If I had to make a prediction, I'd say a non-Borg fleet will win- but it'll be a very good player with a lot of luck and a fleet specifically built to counter the Borg. The Borg players will all use this as some kind of evidence that the Borg really are balanced and OK and everyone else that doesn't play Borg just need to shut up and L2P.

I can't argue the last couple months have open my eyes to borg. Trying to list build against them is not a 100%, in most cases you need to fly a perfect game. As, I indicated in a previous post.

15 straight games against Borg so far and nothing I've built is 100% effective. I have become solid with 2 fleets but one requires me to fly that perfect game I just mentioned.