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I just played my first game with the "new" ork codex. How are people randomizing the hits from mob rule?

That's the main problem of the mob rule - allocating 2 wounds randomly to 23 models.

The quickest way is to homerule it the way you just pick whatever model you want and remove it - however, it's more profitable for an ork player as you won't allocate the wound to special gear models, right?..

The correct way is to roll it off. To make it quicker, there are some tricks you might use:
- roll d66 and count it as a numerical system 6 where a 6 counts as 0 and translate it to numerical system 10. Might sound complicated but it's easy:
for example:
you've rolled 6 3 - means 0 3; 0*6 + 3 = 3 resolve the hits against the 3-d model
you've rolled 2 5; 2*6 + 5 = 17 - resolve the hits against the 17-th model

Now there are situations when you get a number that's higher than your total ammount of models. You can continue counting from some other edge or reroll d66

Another mathematically correct option is to split the squad in 6-s. For example, you've got a squad of 15 models, split them in 3 sub-squads and roll to see which one gets hit. Roll d3 - if 1 is rolled - the first sub-squad recieves a hit and than you simply roll d6 to see which model from this squad gets hit, if 2 is rolled - you take the 2-d sub-squad and than roll d6 for the guyz in there and the same with 3-d. When you've got an uneven result that can't be rolled with d2 or d3 - 4 or 5, for example, roll d6 and reroll results that are higher.

Or be an Orkimedes and use dX random number generator

We play it so that if the orc players can't randomly allocate wounds to his models, he breaks the rules and loses the game. Stops orcs from runing time stalling lists with big squads. Stops new players from picking up orcs from base set, so they have to buy a proper army. It is good for stores and good for players.

Makumba wrote:
We play it so that if the orc players can't randomly allocate wounds to his models, he breaks the rules and loses the game. Stops orcs from runing time stalling lists with big squads. Stops new players from picking up orcs from base set, so they have to buy a proper army. It is good for stores and good for players.

Sounds like some of your players have less understanding of maths or logic than a special-needs Ork.

Propa orks have internal understanding of tekknology to build killy stuff and mafimatiks to resolve mob rule

You randomly pick one model then that model gets to take all the required wounds until it is dead. If there are a surplus of wounds remaining after the first model dies then simply randomly pick the next model and continue the process of picking models, applying wounds till dead until there are no more wounds outstanding.

This is the gospel of P35: Random Allocation. Praise be to 'dub.

 koooaei wrote:
That's the main problem of the mob rule - allocating 2 wounds randomly to 23 models.

The quickest way is to homerule it the way you just pick whatever model you want and remove it - however, it's more profitable for an ork player as you won't allocate the wound to special gear models, right?..

The correct way is to roll it off. To make it quicker, there are some tricks you might use:
- roll d66 and count it as a numerical system 6 where a 6 counts as 0 and translate it to numerical system 10. Might sound complicated but it's easy:
for example:
you've rolled 6 3 - means 0 3; 0*6 + 3 = 3 resolve the hits against the 3-d model
you've rolled 2 5; 2*6 + 5 = 17 - resolve the hits against the 17-th model

Now there are situations when you get a number that's higher than your total ammount of models. You can continue counting from some other edge or reroll d66

Another mathematically correct option is to split the squad in 6-s. For example, you've got a squad of 15 models, split them in 3 sub-squads and roll to see which one gets hit. Roll d3 - if 1 is rolled - the first sub-squad recieves a hit and than you simply roll d6 to see which model from this squad gets hit, if 2 is rolled - you take the 2-d sub-squad and than roll d6 for the guyz in there and the same with 3-d. When you've got an uneven result that can't be rolled with d2 or d3 - 4 or 5, for example, roll d6 and reroll results that are higher.

Or be an Orkimedes and use dX random number generator

Thanks for your help.
The situation was just like your second example with 15 orks including 1 special weapon, the problem was that the mob was strung out towards an objective so it was important who got killed. When the first ork was removed it was no longer possible to divide the mob in 3 (or 6) parts so i want to know how people deal with this rule in actual games without bogging down. I am trying to understand your first example, maybe i am too tired.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:
You randomly pick one model then that model gets to take all the required wounds until it is dead. If there are a surplus of wounds remaining after the first model dies then simply randomly pick the next model and continue the process of picking models, applying wounds till dead until there are no more wounds outstanding.

This is the gospel of P35: Random Allocation. Praise be to 'dub.

I understand this but how would you allocate the wounds in a fair and easy way? Lets say 19 ork boyz, 2 big shoota boyz, a nob and a mek where the positioning of many of the models is important.

Koooaei has the exactly-right way of doing it.

If there are about 5 regular Boys for each one that really matters, I'll have them roll a d6 and say on a 6 someone important gets it. Then its usually a lot easier - and rarer - to distribute between the 1-3 targets that matter. Otherwise, take whoever. But then, our meta is laid back.

Whenever side ruling something like this in a casual meta, always try to err on the other player's side. Makes things quite amicable. 5 guys, one is on the objective? D6 it, on a 6 he's toast. Slightly off, but the game goes quickly.

That said, if you've done D66 frequently, it becomes quick and easy. It can sound scary, but like all base-N style problems, its just that you're so familiar with counting to 10. Once you do it a time or two, it'll be easy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
D66, reroll if its not a valid number (both dice, not just one!) is truly random. You could do D3/6 or D2/6 or whatever you need, but start just doing D66.

(For up to 36 models. I would thing D266 would be necessary for 37-72.)

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

Makumba wrote:
We play it so that if the orc players can't randomly allocate wounds to his models, he breaks the rules and loses the game. Stops orcs from runing time stalling lists with big squads. Stops new players from picking up orcs from base set, so they have to buy a proper army. It is good for stores and good for players.

Sounds like some of your players have less understanding of maths or logic than a special-needs Ork.

you do a precise randomisation with the official d6 when there is something else then 6 models. even when you have 12 or 18 rolling 2d6 is true randomisation. And when its something else you can't do it. And that is good even eldar are less cancer then ork lists that are build only to take turn 1 and go time on their own turn every time.

2d6 heavily favors the middle (7 is a 1/6 chance), and disfavors the extremes (2 and 12 are each 1/36, or six times less likely than 7). And it fits 11 choices, not 12.

When they say randomly allocate, are they explicit about method of randomization (I can't recall)? Even if they are, there is no way 2d6 is what they suggested.

As for fitting smaller groups into a larger diceroll (d66 for 20 Boys), simply reroll if it doesnt match a boy (both dice - if you reroll only one, you heavily bias it). Its the natural scaled-up verson of rolling d6 to randomize between 6 or fewer. And if you need to go past 36, it scales up gracefully to D666.

I can't imagine anyone actually having a problem, as long as the method is random and fair. 2d6 is nowhere close, but d66 is exactly on.

Why not seperate out the types into groups(not physically) and then assign them a value on a d6? Group of boyz with a nob, shootas, etc. Basic boys are 1-3 special weps are 4 and 5, and the nob is 6.

Variate based on compisition of course but its easy and not very complicated.

For one wound, a little mental math, some approximation, works great.

If you want to be dead on, you'd have to rebalance after each failed save. But the difference would be far too little for me to care.

die toten hosen wrote:
Why not seperate out the types into groups(not physically) and then assign them a value on a d6? Group of boyz with a nob, shootas, etc. Basic boys are 1-3 special weps are 4 and 5, and the nob is 6.

Variate based on compisition of course but its easy and not very complicated.

The place of the model is also important. i will try D66 next game and see how it goes, just a little worried about how to keep track of what model gets assigned wich number.

You could always bring a d20 or two d10s so you can d100 and use that to resolve random hits.

One way I just discovered was with the green tide (not mob rule, but other random damage.)

Take a small die or other non-round object and toss it into the unit from a distance. Whoever it's closest to gets it.

Random enough for most situations. For more fairness, alternate who throws the thing.

Does your opponent get to pick how heavy the object you throw into the unit is?

Bharring wrote:
Does your opponent get to pick how heavy the object you throw into the unit is?

lol, NO.

But for more fun, use an ammo runt, or one of the tiny nurglings that come with some of the daemon kits.

 jhnbrg wrote:

The place of the model is also important. i will try D66 next game and see how it goes, just a little worried about how to keep track of what model gets assigned wich number.

In a big mob, the individual placement of the regular boyz is really of minimal importance.

Frankly, I'd just be going with allowing the Ork player to choose a model. Randomising in this case is complication for no good reason.

If you wanted to get wild with it, maybe roll off on the chance of it hitting one of the unit's 'special' models (ie: unit of 23 with a nob and 3 big shootas is close enough to a 1 in 6 chance of it hitting one of the 'special' models instead of a regular boy. Roll a D6, and on a 1 randomise again amongst the 4 special models, on anything else just take a boy (any boy, I really couldn't care less) off the table.

I roll either a D10, D20, or D100 (two ten sided dice, nominating one to be the tens place) from my D&D supply. When I roll a number higher than the number in the squad (usually obligatory for the first roll) I just reroll until I get something that works. D50 can be done the same way as D3 but from D100. The dice can be purchased cheap on ebay.

I also usually run a fearless green tide for what it's worth.

I've always agreed to roll a separate D6, and Nominate certain numbers for types of troops. For example:

D6 Roll:
1=Special Weapon
2-5=Standard Boyz
6=Nob

It's not exactly mathematically correct, but it keeps the flow of the game going, and let's face it, orks don't believe in maths anyway.

The nob hits he's own unit to show that they need to fear him not an enemy, so alocate wounds around the charecter model ! Thats hou usually there's 5-6 model's in reach , but seriously I usually also roll d 6 nominating 1 special weapon and 2 charecter and the rest normal ork.

I'm pretty sure the non-squabble outcome ignores characters anyway

But what if you need to know *which* Orks didn't squabble!

Id just put the boys into groups of 6 (putting only one special weapon guy into each group for as many guys as there are)

Then roll a D6 and the number it comes up denots which group is selected. Then roll the die again and that boy dies. No need to reallocate the groupings because each group still only has a 1 in 6 chance of getting selected in the first place.

It may not be perfect randomization by the strictest sense, but its fair enough and fast enough to get the job done.

Bharring wrote:
But what if you need to know *which* Orks didn't squabble!

The aforementioned D10/20/50/100 etc. I don't know why people are using clearly flawed methods when a single D10 can generate a D100 result which can be divided into many convenient fractions and rounded.