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Hey Gents,
I recently have been building 500 point armies for every faction in Warhammer 40k. The reasoning is so when I am teaching players the game, I have a selection of built, painted, and ready to go armies to choose from. With that said, one of my lists seems "broken" in comparison to the others.

List in question:
5x Plague Marines w/ 2x Plasma, Rhino
5x Plague Marines
Chaos Lord
Predator w/ Autocannon, 2x Lascannon Sponsons

It seems the Plague Marines will just not drop. I have been working with two friends, one playing the BA and the other CSM (the above list). I don't want to change the CSM list too much as the player has grown accustomed to the tactics/rules. With that said, what can BA bring for 500 points to counter it? I dislike list tailoring, but it may be slightly necessary here.

Thank you in advance.

Fast vindicator will make short work of plague marines. Fast predator will open up rhinos very well.

That leaves about 200 points for HQ and scouts/tacticals.

In a basic list BA will have trouble against this list.

The problem here for BA is their troop tax. They have no method of matching up with plagues superior troop selection with their own troops.

Space marine army would have no trouble against this list.

They could take 2 land speeder storms with assault scouts and combie melta or plasma scout sargent for 240 points.

Then a small sterngard squad with a captain.

That would be a fun little battle.

Try getting a vidicator into the BA list and it should make for a much more balanced game.

A Librarian with a force weapon or even just straight power weapons would do a good deal of damage to them once you get the rhino open. Take advantage of drop pods and jump packs if you can to get there in one piece

I don't know is this good vanilla against plagues (I have these models)

Captain with power weapon and artificer armor
5 men tacticals with missile launchers (or lascannons if you have)
5 men tacticals with flamer and meltabomb (with captain)
ironclad with meltagun, h.flamer and drop pod

Or I could use 3 attack bikes with multimeltas instead of ironclad

Guys, keep the tips coming.

The BA list "was" as follows:
5x Tactical w/ ML
5x Tactical w/ Flamer, Razorback w/ HB
1x JP Captain
1x Sanguinary Priest
6x Assault Marines w/ JP, Flamer

The list was originally intended to fight a horde army but be able to take on really anything. The lack of LC, or high strength weapons in volume was a pain.

I am trying to avoid the librarian as to not "complicate" the game too much with the inclusion of the psychic minigame.

I would like to run the following, but I am unable to fit in an HQ at the point level...

Furioso Dread in DP
2x Tactical Squad w/ Plasma, Razorback w/ LC, PG

^tops at 500 on the dot....
suggestions?

Take your pick of the following depending on army used: Wraithguard, Chapter Master with Orbital Bombardment, 75pt Damocles Command Rhino with Orbital (cheapest and most fluffy option), Vindicator, Battle Cannon means they have just over a third's chance of surviving, and I know for a fact I'm forgetting other things that would help in other armies as well.

The Damocles or Vindicator are the best options for Blood Angels.

Vindicator.
Nough Said. He has no real threat margine from his side of the board, you have a Predator Tank with Autocannon + 2 Las. Thats a kick in the nuts to any player. If he brought a Vindicator he ups his damage output by 10 fold. Bring 2 and he might even win.

Fun problem! Maybe if we keep things basic:

1x Sanguinary Priest - Blood Chalice, Digital Weapons, Power Fist, Meltabombs - 100pts
2x 5-man Tac Squad, Veteran Sgt w/Power Sword & Meltabombs, 1x Meltagun - 220pts
2x Razorback, Las/Plas, Dozer Blades (DT) - 180pts

It's still a "troops" list for teaching. Having 2x fast vehicles means you can take advantage of speed for flank shots on armour. The Meltaguns and Meltabombs mean your troops can threaten AV too. Your Tac squads are geared for assault rather than shooting -- each gets 4x Power Sword attacks on the charge at S5. The Priest helps them survive with FNP, helps buff their WS to maximize those attacks connecting, and will hit at S10 with Furious Charge in his first turn. Don't forget, CSM is vulnerable to being swept.

Anyway, with MoN on your HQ, 2x Rhinos, 2x Plague Marines, and a Pred, doesn't Chaos cost 450pts before upgrades? Adding all that Lascannon and Plasma puts you at 550pts.

Yoyoyo wrote:
Anyway, with MoN on your HQ, 2x Rhinos, 2x Plague Marines, and a Pred, doesn't Chaos cost 450pts before upgrades? Adding all that Lascannon and Plasma puts you at 550pts.

There is only one unit of plasmas and one rhino. It is exactly 500 points, no melta boms or other upgrades.

GoliothOnline wrote:Vindicator.
Nough Said. He has no real threat margine from his side of the board, you have a Predator Tank with Autocannon + 2 Las. Thats a kick in the nuts to any player. If he brought a Vindicator he ups his damage output by 10 fold. Bring 2 and he might even win.

Vindicator may be the way, I am currently trying to tweak the original BA list to include such a thing.

Yoyoyo wrote:Fun problem! Maybe if we keep things basic:

1x Sanguinary Priest - Blood Chalice, Digital Weapons, Power Fist, Meltabombs - 100pts
2x 5-man Tac Squad, Veteran Sgt w/Power Sword & Meltabombs, 1x Meltagun - 220pts
2x Razorback, Las/Plas, Dozer Blades (DT) - 180pts

It's still a "troops" list for teaching. Having 2x fast vehicles means you can take advantage of speed for flank shots on armour. The Meltaguns and Meltabombs mean your troops can threaten AV too. Your Tac squads are geared for assault rather than shooting -- each gets 4x Power Sword attacks on the charge at S5. The Priest helps them survive with FNP, helps buff their WS to maximize those attacks connecting, and will hit at S10 with Furious Charge in his first turn. Don't forget, CSM is vulnerable to being swept.

Anyway, with MoN on your HQ, 2x Rhinos, 2x Plague Marines, and a Pred, doesn't Chaos cost 450pts before upgrades? Adding all that Lascannon and Plasma puts you at 550pts.

Your list is literally the one I am currently viewing, although I am thinking of trying to squeeze in the vindicator some how. Also my only concern is that the powerfist on the sanguinary priest would cause him to be a primary target for challenges, so I am unsure of his viability. I come from a 5th ed mentality, keep your SP safe and away due to his enormous buffs.

Draco wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Anyway, with MoN on your HQ, 2x Rhinos, 2x Plague Marines, and a Pred, doesn't Chaos cost 450pts before upgrades? Adding all that Lascannon and Plasma puts you at 550pts.

There is only one unit of plasmas and one rhino. It is exactly 500 points, no melta boms or other upgrades.

*Exactly....the Predator is really a big pain in the butt, combined with the rapid firing plasma it wipes out a whole squad from one round of shooting.

My mistake, whoops! Anyways, here's a shot a getting both a Furioso and a Vindicator in a 500pt list.

- Techmarine w/Servitor (60pts)
- Furioso Dreadnought w/Blood Talons (135pts)
- Scouts w/Heavy Bolter (63pts)
- Tacs w/Rhino, Dozer Blade (120pts)
- Vindicator (120pts)

Let us know how it finally turns out!

Honestly, I think your best bet would be to show the difference between an elite list (your CSM) and a list that plays to the objectives.

I would try bringing something like 3 units of 10 Scouts (and combat squad them all) backed up with a little extra firepower. Or possibly a much more mobile lists - bikes, jump infantry, etc. Show them that a "less powerful" list can still easily win games.