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Now i been told i need to run sturguard with melta ,th&ss termys our a grave star. So now here are my view and opinions and ?
Sternguard very expansive for the little they do as a sucide unit can't kill a landrider in one go and superheavies knights laugh at them . now am i missing something with them seems a waste of s unit not to do muc.
th&ss 500plus point to field a small unit. and you have to have a landrider to get them any place what do this guys even do they just drive around trying to assault stuff and everthing runs away from them. Now i been told usethem against knights hello they will get kiilledd before they can hurt knights . what am i missing here also .
now s grav star seems way to inmobile and short ranged and ever one gunning for them to kill them as fast as possible and i think there ugly and kind of cheating because you never get a armor save against them.

Not sure if serious... lets assume so...

Sternguard can all get combi weapons - suicide wise, they can drop in a pod and kill a target very dead with a good degree of reliability. They are also very flexible with multiple ammo types for many targets. They are not bad in combat as well as they sport a veteran stat line.

TH&SS termies can indeed take on knight thanks to their 3++ storm shields meaning that the unless the knight rolls a 6 for its D weapon hits then they are getting a save. They strike back with a high strength and good volume of attacks - again a veteran stat line. That said, a lucky roll on stomp from the knight will see them all dead pretty easily. As for enemy units running away from your land raider - you move 6, disembark 6 and assault 2d6 while the enemy will typically move 6 and run d6. You will catch infantry units unless the LR is destroyed early. A turn 2 charge is possible.

As for the Gravstar - centurions can move and shoot (read your codex). Yes, they will get targeted so you need to plan your force to support them. Aesthetics wise - what you think of the models is your choice. As for 'kind of cheating' - are you serious? Just because they are AP2? Do you think plasma (any kind), melta (any kind) are cheating?

Most of this actually boils down to one thing - read your codex!

Ok this is how this thread will go down.

1. Zilka will spew out some unreadable gibberish about how everything everywhere doesn't work and he keeps getting shafted by his LGS.

2. Other posters will offer helpful, friendly advice on the problem and how it can be mitigated.

3. Zilka will continue to spew out some unreadable gibberish about how everything everywhere doesnt work.

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until thread is locked.

By deathstar unit are you looking for something that is ridiculously overpowered and can defeat the grey knights. Well as a newcomer to the game that would defeat the point of the grey knights as a concept if some regular marine unit could kill them easily. That being said the sterngaurd advice sounds like something I will be taking. In tactics every tactic has a flaw. Now unless some rogue game maker made them truely unfair maybe you can come up with such a tactic.Read the art if war! IF YOUR ENEMY IS ATTACKING ADVANCE! IF YOUR ENEMY IS BOLD MAKE HIM FEARFUL! IF YOUR ENEMY IS THE GREY KNIGHTS SEEK ADVICE ONLINE! ....I should pay more attention ti these books before I quote them.

Precautionary report.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

Fixed the spelling and grammar.

OP wrote:
Now, I have been told I need to run Sternguard with melta, TH/SS Terminators or a CentStar. So, now here are my views, opinions and questions.

Sternguard- Very expansive for the little they do as a suicide unit. They cannot kill a Land Raider in one go and Superheavies/Knights laugh at them. Now, am I missing something with them? It seems a waste of a unit that doesn't do much.

TH/SS Terminators- 500+ points to field a small unit, and they have to have a landrider to get them anywhere. What are they supposed to do? Just drive around and assault things? I have been told to use them against Knights, but they always die against Knights without killing them. How am I using them wrong?

CentStar- CentStar seems way too immobile and short ranged. Everyone is gunning for them to kill them as fast as possible. I think they are ugly, and they are kind of cheating, because you never get an armor save against them.

Plenty of ways to make Cents more mobile. Ally in SW or BA for a pod, ally in GK for Draigo and Gate of Infinity, get a bunker with an escape hatch.

For 205 points (which, to be fair, is about as much as a fully equipped tactical squad with twice the amount of models), you can get 5 sternguard with 2 meltas and the rest with combi-meltas in a drop pod. You can drop deadly close to an enemy vehicle and you WILL kill it. Then, you have special ammo, which lets you pop anything with a save less than 2+

Ok so explain to me how A 300 point sternguard unit that might kill a landraiderthat can't hurt a superheavy our knights that will die the turn after they drop is a good unit .
Also how are assualt termy any good when the never get a chance to assualt when ever one avoid them with easy and the tax of have to have a landraider with them

after ready codex and seeing ther good on paper they seem to not do much for me on the table but eat up points

zilka86 wrote:
Ok so explain to me how A 300 point sternguard unit that might kill a landraiderthat can't hurt a superheavy our knights that will die the turn after they drop is a good unit .
Also how are assualt termy any good when the never get a chance to assualt when ever one avoid them with easy and the tax of have to have a landraider with them

after ready codex and seeing ther good on paper they seem to not do much for me on the table but eat up points

U wot m8? I think you're underestimating drop pod melta effectiveness.

Sternguard can absolutely hurt a superheavy or knight, on account of melta spam. 2D6 armor pen at close range is plenty to wreck/pen those beasties down.

For terminators (I play mainly CSM) but see the same problems with fully kitted out assault terms. It can be tricky to get them into combat, but if played smart they can be very effective.

5 sternguard with 2 melta and 3 combi-melta, hopping out of a drop pod and getting side or front armor:

5 shots, needing 3's to hit: 3.33 hits

Needing 6's to pen (ignoring glances): 1.94 Penetrating hits

Needing a 7 to explode (AP1 adds 2, so roll a 5 or 6): 0.64

So, you have a 64% chance of blowing one up. Do they have an invulnerable save? I dunno. Let's assume they have a 5+ chance to save:

0.43 or 43% chance of blowing one up. That doesn't suck!


Assuming Rear armor 12, and keeping the rest the same, then you have a 53% chance of blowing one up!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 clamclaw wrote:


Sternguard can absolutely hurt a superheavy or knight, on account of melta spam. 2D6 armor pen at close range is plenty to wreck/pen those beasties down.

I've only ever tried to blow up a superheavy with a 5x Sternguard squad with 2 melta and 3 combimelta in one Apoc game, but that was in 5th edition with the old super heavy rules and 6's would take structure points. Anyway, I blew it up. So, I'm 1 for 1. 100% success rate!

Ok lets just talk about sterngaurd how can they hurt superheavy like knights ever time i try the alpha strike with 5guys melta heavy they never hurt it because of the shields. then next trun if the knight doesn't stomp them dead the get shot dead before they can do anything useful .
i know there a great unit and all but they seem to never make there points backs 200pts gone

Now they also can't hurt a landrider our lrbt our any large tank heck they can't even kill a predtor tank they seem weak for the little they do. What am i missing with them

Are you using the Melta rule properly? Getting an extra D6 of armor penetration at half range?

zilka86 wrote:
Ok lets just talk about sterngaurd how can they hurt superheavy like knights ever time i try the alpha strike with 5guys melta heavy they never hurt it because of the shields. then next trun if the knight doesn't stomp them dead the get shot dead before they can do anything useful .
i know there a great unit and all but they seem to never make there points backs 200pts gone

Now they also can't hurt a landrider our lrbt our any large tank heck they can't even kill a predtor tank they seem weak for the little they do. What am i missing with them

Point blank melta can't hurt a leman russ / landraider? Are you joking? Or just absolutely loony tunes?

I'd really recommend looking into the rules which make the game function. A 6 inch melta stern-guard drop is going to reliably melt any non-SH tanks it lands beside.

What you're missing is taking the time to actually read the rules and understand how things work.

A melta gun has a 65% chance of scoring a hp against av11 (pred side armour).
(0.65^5) + (5 x 0.65^4 x 0.35) + (10 x 0.65^3 x 0.35^2) = 76.5% chance of stripping at least 3hp off a pred, not including results on the pen table.

zilka86 wrote:
Now i been told i need to run sturguard with melta ,th&ss termys our a grave star. So now here are my view and opinions and ?
Sternguard very expansive for the little they do as a sucide unit can't kill a landrider in one go and superheavies knights laugh at them . now am i missing something with them seems a waste of s unit not to do muc.
th&ss 500plus point to field a small unit. and you have to have a landrider to get them any place what do this guys even do they just drive around trying to assault stuff and everthing runs away from them. Now i been told usethem against knights hello they will get kiilledd before they can hurt knights . what am i missing here also .
now s grav star seems way to inmobile and short ranged and ever one gunning for them to kill them as fast as possible and i think there ugly and kind of cheating because you never get a armor save against them.

Don't suicide Sternguard. It's almost never worth it. Find a cheaper unit to throw away.

zilka86 wrote:

Now they also can't hurt a landrider our lrbt our any large tank heck they can't even kill a predtor tank they seem weak for the little they do. What am i missing with them.

+d6

Yes i have read the rules and under stand the plus d6 for melta but that don't seem to help i have used 2 full 10man melta sterngaurd squad in last 10games to try and see what i missing in 5games i played against 2 knights sm army. i try useing my sterngaurd to take out knights in my first trun and the just bounce of them because of shileds and one i try to team up against one still no help because of shield works . 2 games i played against ig tank army lots of lrbt and with way hp equals wounds you can spread all hits out among your tank squads so ten guys got six hits and all the tanks still ther.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And my last 3 games against orks with a stomps did same thing drop eversterngaurd on the stompa it just laugh at me healed 7 hp and then it walked right throw my sterngaurd because there can't do anything to it in cc

Sorry but I struggle to believe that in two games with IG 40 melta shots failed to achieve a kill. That is stupidly improbable.

It is also highly unlikely (but reasonably possible) for a stompa to survive 20 melta shots.

And you didn't manage to kill a single knight in 2 games with 20 melta shots in each game with the ability to hit all 4 facings (if required) due to combat squadding and 2 squads of 10?

I can believe this maybe happening in one game. But in all 5? Really? The statistical probability of that happening is astoundingly improbable.

Martel732 wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Now i been told i need to run sturguard with melta ,th&ss termys our a grave star. So now here are my view and opinions and ?
Sternguard very expansive for the little they do as a sucide unit can't kill a landrider in one go and superheavies knights laugh at them . now am i missing something with them seems a waste of s unit not to do muc.
th&ss 500plus point to field a small unit. and you have to have a landrider to get them any place what do this guys even do they just drive around trying to assault stuff and everthing runs away from them. Now i been told usethem against knights hello they will get kiilledd before they can hurt knights . what am i missing here also .
now s grav star seems way to inmobile and short ranged and ever one gunning for them to kill them as fast as possible and i think there ugly and kind of cheating because you never get a armor save against them.

Don't suicide Sternguard. It's almost never worth it. Find a cheaper unit to throw away.

Suicide a SM command squad instead! 20 points cheaper, and if they live somehow, they can fire meltas again next turn!

The knights are always deployed in a corner so you can only attack one faceing at a time

zilka86 wrote:
The knights are always deployed in a corner so you can only attack one faceing at a time

If they hide their knights in a corner, could you not just ignore it and swarm objectives? Thus winning the game in either case? You don't have to table an opponent to secure a win.

1) Play the missions
2) Play Maestrom
3) Use plenty of LOS-blocking terrain and cover.

Knights are tough, but not unbeatable. They are weak to fliers too I believe?

zilka86 wrote:
Yes i have read the rules and under stand the plus d6 for melta but that don't seem to help i have used 2 full 10man melta sterngaurd squad in last 10games to try and see what i missing in 5games i played against 2 knights sm army. i try useing my sterngaurd to take out knights in my first trun and the just bounce of them because of shileds and one i try to team up against one still no help because of shield works

The shield can only protect one side. Drop a Sternguard squad on each side and he can only use the saves vs one of them.

. 2 games i played against ig tank army lots of lrbt and with way hp equals wounds you can spread all hits out among your tank squads so ten guys got six hits and all the tanks still ther.

You appear to misunderstand how the rules work with vehicles. The closest vehicle takes the hits until it is dead in a squadron. You allocate the hit to the tank, then roll the result. Repeat if it is alive. It if dies, then the next vehicle takes the hit until all the hits are allocated.

Vanilla Marines greatest strength is flexibility with MSU in Drop Pods, rhinos, etc. so the concept of a Vanilla Deathstar is somewhat counter-productive. Anyone one thing a Vanilla can do, some other specialist in some other army can do better and cheaper.

Vanilla Marines are the most anti-death star army in the game.

That being said, I'd say THSS with some HQ's including a possible Psycher in a LR.

This looks like a troll thread to me.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Vanilla Marines greatest strength is flexibility with MSU in Drop Pods, rhinos, etc. so the concept of a Vanilla Deathstar is somewhat counter-productive. Anyone one thing a Vanilla can do, some other specialist in some other army can do better and cheaper.

Vanilla Marines are the most anti-death star army in the game.

That being said, I'd say THSS with some HQ's including a possible Psycher in a LR.

I don't know vanilla marines run a pretty imposing death star with centurions with tiggy to give them invisibility. It's a unit that can erase 1 or 2 units a turn and you can't hit it with templates or blasts and the vast majority of your shots will miss.

zilka86 wrote:

Now they also can't hurt a landrider our lrbt our any large tank heck they can't even kill a predtor tank they seem weak for the little they do. What am i missing with them

Now I know this isn't a serious thread. 5x Sternguard with melta combi-melta will wreck a LR or LRBT nearly every time.

Dang it. zilka got me again!

I have a friend who runs Centuristar (invisible Grav-centurions) and it's a pain for armies that can't get that DtW off.

 kronk wrote:

zilka86 wrote:

Now they also can't hurt a landrider our lrbt our any large tank heck they can't even kill a predtor tank they seem weak for the little they do. What am i missing with them

Now I know this isn't a serious thread. 5x Sternguard with melta combi-melta will wreck a LR or LRBT nearly every time.

Dang it. zilka got me again!

Think that's bad - he said 20 didn't even kill a single Leman Russ... IN TWO GAMES!