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Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oklahoma City

I haven't posted a list here in a while, I've been doing a lot of theorycrafting with the new S&V stuff as well as some playtesting and discussion on the subject but I think I've come up with a list I feel pretty comfortable with.

Prince Xizor (39 points)
-Veteran Instincts
-Autothrusters
-Virago
-Advanced Sensors
-Inertial Dampeners

Kavil (32 points)
-Veteran Instincts
-Autoblaster Turret
-Engine Upgrade
-Unhinged Astromech

Black Sun Soldier (13 points)

Black Sun Soldier (13 points)

Total: 97 points

This list satisfies my requirement of being thematic.
It can fight with B wing based lists, since the Viper will survive the initial trade due to Xizor's ability, the Soldiers shoot before normal B wings and Kavil can hound Roark into the ground and eliminate him
It can destroy Phantom and Chirpy due to Autothrusters and some cheap jousters against the turret and a mixture of outmaneuvering the phantom and cutting through its 4 dice and focus with the autoblaster. You have intiative a lot of the time due to a 3 point bid. Against a dual phantom (and nothing else list) you still out skill Echo so they can't arc dodge you and Whisper will still want to move first and shoot first but it won't do her any good.
Xizor and Kavil both shoot before Corran Horn and can try to dodge his arc with better PS. Xizor gets better chances against Dash and Han with Autothrusters and passing off damage to the Ys and Zs and can outmaneuver them with Advanced Sensors, Inertial Dampeners and higher PS

I was tempted to lose Inertial Dampeners and put 2, 2 point Illicit upgrades on the Black Sun Soldiers. Either Feedback Array or Dead Man's Switch but neither seemed worth it as the potential damage caused by the upgrades is higher than the potential gain. Especially since both upgrades do the most against Phantoms when I already have a built in Phantom counter, made all the stronger by a 3 point initiative bid.

I doubt I will get the opportunity to play in the upcoming regional tourney, or any others in the series, but if i were this is what I would bring. How does Dakka think I would do?

Proud supporter of


It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
-Gabriel Angelos 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator





Florida, USA

Hmm, I run a Decimator / Brath combo with PS 10. I have also dabbled with VI Xizor but it still puts him level with some of the best non VI'd pilots.

IIRC Xizor's ability works within range one, making it hard for him to arc dodge and stick close to his other ships. Slightly easier if range 2 as well.

Kavil needs range one for his shots to mean anything which is a tough sell. I like a boosting Y but it's still just a boosting ton of bricks... And the obvious target of early fire.

I think depending on your skill the list could perform adequately... Just don't think its a regional winner. May be wrong though. Maybe I'm missing something. Or my Xizor knowledge is off.

You don't see da eyes of da Daemon, till him come callin'
- King Willy - Predator 2 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






I think your biggest problem is that all of your plans for dealing with major threats (Whisper, Corran, etc) require both of your big ships. For example, what do you do if Corran's escort blows away Kavil before he ever gets into autoblaster range (not exactly hard to do against a y-wing)? Xizor has a PS advantage but without predator/PTL/etc to boost his red dice you have very little hope of getting through Corran's tank. Meanwhile Corran can have patience and wait as long as it takes to get a shot, since starvipers aren't all that tough and you have no way to repair damage once you take it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Andy Hoare




Norwich,England

I'm baffled by the theorycrafting that makes this list viable. Your Xizor is actually pretty good as far as Starvipers go, its the support ships that I'm unsold on. Your Kavil is a points sink focused around delivering Autoblaster turret shots but no enhancements to maximise your attack potential. The Black Sun Soldiers are paying an extra point to be worse at blocking, but occasionally shoot first over other generic ships.

It can fight with B wing based lists, since the Viper will survive the initial trade due to Xizor's ability, the Soldiers shoot before normal B wings and Kavil can hound Roark into the ground and eliminate him


The most common B-Wing tournament list is 4B1Z, they focus fire kavil and then mow down the rest of your ships.

It can destroy Phantom and Chirpy due to Autothrusters and some cheap jousters against the turret and a mixture of outmaneuvering the phantom and cutting through its 4 dice and focus with the autoblaster.


I very much doubt that your list can put out enough damage quickly enough to nail a decimator whilst chasing a phantom which practically requires you to split your squadron and not receiving the full benefit of Xizor's ability.

Xizor and Kavil both shoot before Corran Horn and can try to dodge his arc with better PS. Xizor gets better chances against Dash and Han with Autothrusters and passing off damage to the Ys and Zs and can outmaneuver them with Advanced Sensors, Inertial Dampeners and higher PS


Once again, I think you may overfocus on dealing with one ship at a time rather than engaging their entire squadron.




   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

The common issue I can see with this list is that the pieces you are expecting to do work for you aren't going to have any dice modification most of the time. Kavil with Autoblasters + Engine is fun, but its not a great Phantom counter because you have to get into range 1 and you only get 3 unmodified shots (because you will always be boosting) - which isn't going to kill a Phantom before it kills you. If you are worried about Phantoms then you can handle them just with Xizor - for a 3 point swing you can get Flechette Torps and a Hotshot - both of which mean a Phantom does not want to be anywhere near you. That makes Kavil unnecessary and frees up a heap of points.

Xizor needs a Focus to stay alive and/or will be boosting/rolling to minimise the number of shots coming at him - I feel like Fire Control is a better option for him when you are running him with VI because after the first shots he is essentially getting two actions a turn. I would also worry about him with only 2 Z's to tank hits to - the Y is going to be boosting off to get into range. I have found that having more ships is good with Xizor, he wants ships near him but also doesn't want to be locked in to flying in a formation. Having 3-4 other ships that aren't relying on flying in formation (i.e. no Serissu) means its much easier to keep him close to things while still dancing around a bit.

I ended up second at a Store Champs last weekend running Xizor (VI, FCS, Dampeners, Autothrusters), 2 Y's with Ion + R4 and a Z. Beat Han + Wedge (with EU), Firespray + Soontir + Dark Curse, ORS + 3 B's and lost to the winner who ran Rexler + Chinerau. Xizor certainly isn't as strong as Soontir/Whisper/VI Corran by himself, but I think he complements the incredibly effective double shot Y wings.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oklahoma City

For anyone following this/wondering, I tried this list in 2 games, and a third game where i kept Kavil the same but changed the rest of the list. My observations: Kavil worked just as intended, the rest of the list did not. Those skeptics that said Xizor wanting to dodge but not wanting to leave his formation were correct. And the comment about boosting/barrel rolling and not having focus/tl was correct as well. And the Zs were in all games focused and destroyed before the Viper. Some bad flying on my part also cost me my Y wing early on in the first game, but I think I've got a better feel for it now.

The games were semi casual meaning all tournament rules in place but no one brought the most competitive meta lists like Corran and Dash/Han or Chirpy and Whisper although I did fly against whisper in two games.

Kavil did exactly as I predicted he would, which means that any ship that relied on its green dice to keep it alive got rocked. Whisper and Dark Curse ate it quite often, even the Defender was no match. I imagine a StarViper or HWK getting eaten up pretty badly too. If I ever saw A wings on the table it would chew them up. He would even be good at chipping away at non VI Corran or Dash. As long as he moves last and youre fairly decent at flying with 3 maneuvers you can almost always land inside the donut hole or outside of arc. I only had one turn in all those games where someone ended up IN my arc (meaning no extra die). even unmodified, getting 1-3 hits against a ship that only has 3 or 4 total hits to take that can't defend itself is really deadly.

He starts to have problems when there are many shields and hull on the table and the rest of the list didn't do much at all to alleviate that problem. My "efficient jousters" were not at all efficient enough to carry the day against relatively swarmy or tanky enemies

When I changed it up, I brought Boba Fett with PTL and Recon, who did a fair bit of work with his rerolls and N'dru Suhlak with Lone Wolf and Cluster Missiles who got blown up after launching his missiles for a little bit of damage. I assume he's much stronger against Decimators and Falcons but he just did little to nothing in my game that I used him.

I also realized in this game (since he chose to "move last and shoot last") that if Kavil's prey moves after him, it becomes significantly more difficult for him to do his job. Almost to the point of being entirely ineffective at it. But as long as he's going last, he is an elite killer. The Hunter becomes the hunted and he doesn't care about your advanced cloaking device or your Autothrusters or your stealth devices

I'm going to leave Kavil in but continue to change up the rest of my list to try and accommodate for his weakness: meatshields

Proud supporter of


It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
-Gabriel Angelos 
   
 
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