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Hi everyone thinking about buying a daemonkin army but Im wondering if I should buy 2 units of chaos space marines or 1 unit berserks 1 unit CSM orrrrrr 2 units of berzerks

I know from a fluffy point 1 and 1 seems like it works well but I dont know if berzerkers are really any good in game play.

also plan on buying 2 rhinos to go with so wondering thats a good idea as well

yekram10 wrote:
Hi everyone thinking about buying a daemonkin army but Im wondering if I should buy 2 units of chaos space marines or 1 unit berserks 1 unit CSM orrrrrr 2 units of berzerks

I know from a fluffy point 1 and 1 seems like it works well but I dont know if berzerkers are really any good in game play.

also plan on buying 2 rhinos to go with so wondering thats a good idea as well

I don't play Chaos Marines, but what I've heard Bezerkers are not quite "good enough" so regular CM's are the way to go. But what do I know?

I would go with either CSM in rhinos or deepstriking bloodletters squads.

hmmmmmmm I think either way i would do it could be fluffy.

I havent really had experience with either so im thinking def at least a CSM and rhino and then either a unit of bloodletters or berzerkers


I suppose if i do bloodletters I would use the rhino for the possessed.


any ideas on which is overall better when it comes to berzerkers and bloodletters

10 csm in a rhino with two plasma guns is pretty good. They are pretty nasty in melee if you trade in their bolters for CCWs as well. They are pretty comparable to berserkers. 10 marines with 2 plasma and a rhino are 10 points cheaper than 10 berserkers in a rhino.

Marines will reliably not charge until turn three. By turn three, how many blood points will you have? At the very least three if you are running the slaughtercult. Or less depending if you spent some for the turn two charge.

The truth is, khorne marines are better when you are spending three blood points, berserkers need you to spend at least four. They already have furious charge and rage. That's my biggest peeve is that you blank for berserkers at the two blood point mark.


Either way, I just think khorne marines are more versatile. If berserkers could take something besides plasma pistols, this would be a different story maybe.

hmmmmm I see


so ill do the two rhinos with marines

and yes I plan on having at least 5 or 6 since i will field maybe 3 units of 8 chaos cultits

Marines are going to be cheaper, and with the Daemonkin buffs the zerkers lose some of their innate benefits they had over marines.

However, WS5 is very handy in melee to be swinging on 3's instead of 4's. To me, it's still a toss up. More tactical options with marines, but superior melee with the zerkers.

next question..... should I do a unit of bloodletters and a unit of CSM


orrrr 2 units of CSM

I would say the CSM. You can summon bloodletters. You'll be hurting for special weapons and CSM's are a good way of getting them into your lists.

The book really lends himself to hoarding MSU. So I'd say that cheap marine teams are probably the best path here.

And I'd keep bolters. You got plenty of CC around, you need some guns.

Bloodletters charging out of a Landraider... FTW, nobody will expect it

Yes.. and with the banner that is a guaranteed 19" assault range.

I still think zerkers are underrated. In my CSM list I run them with kharn in a raider. It's an immense amount of points, but it's literally never let me down. People forget the bonuses they have over regular marines. WS5. Rage. Furious charge. And for me, most importantly, fearless. I know some of this can be negated by spending blood tithe points (I've had the new Daemonkin book for 24 hours and am planning a major Khorne overhaul as I love the book so much!) but I'd like to save the points for summoning.

CSM with mark of khorne and banner of rage is identical to berzerkers exept:
-CSM get a bonus on charge distance reroll due to the banner.
-Berzerkers get ws5
-CSM get the possibility to buy special weapons.
-CSM is a few points cheape; at 8 model units they are pretty even in points, but any aditional models after that, berzerkers are quickly more expencive

Personally, I plan to use a herald on throne to give berzerkers/CSM hatred as well.

Edit: Bloodletters are really bad at what they do. Easily killed and to few attacks to win a combat. Should not be used as a reliable troops choise, only meat wall, expendables. With the daemon dex they could at least get an awesome axe of khorne for the unit champ, but no such trickery with daemonkin.

You are right about the banner.... But what happens when that one bannerman dies? Due to something like random allocation or precision shot. You're CSM then receive a bit of a neutering.

The lack of special weapons does hurt bezerkers. Personally I think they could do with just an increase in Base attacks by 1. Perhaps a feel no pain save? That would do it. (read the fluff, being wounded doesn't stop them. FnP makes sense.)

I am however biased towards bezerkers as I do love the fluff. I'm personally thinking of running one squad and a CSM squad. Though I'll only get one special weapon because I refuse to go above 8 as a squad size. My need to adhere to fluff is my biggest downfall.

To add my $0.02, Berzerkers offer something CSM do not, a reputation. When I play, my opponents go out of their way to destroy berzerker units. Many who are knowledgeable about the list know they offer a slight edge over MEQ and a are death to anything else. An intact squad can reliably stand up to most in HTH except TEQ, and even then they will most often go 2 turns if they get the charge. Two units will go a long way toward allowing other units to close the distance, and if they live, all the better. Three berzerkers are still a threat to be dealt with (usually by shooting them down like dogs).

Bloodletters are useful for their scary swords. MEQ will crap their pants over Bloodletters, and as such they get shot down as well. But if half of your units are priority kill units, the rest will close and hopefully live. FWIW, cultists with MoK ARE effective in HTH, assuming you close, and you have enough. I have wiped marine units with 20man squads. 4 attacks per is nothing to laugh at, and helps opponents reassess their priorities. Daemonkin is all about target saturation. You just have to make sure YOU have your priorities straight.

Yap, the main concept of assault lists people seem to neglect-accept the fact you are going to take heavy losses early on to shooting, because if you have enough dudes-SOMEONE is getting there.


Assault lists do not work if they got few amazing assault units. they are easy to avoid, and tend to overkill most shooters anyway.

Assault lists work when there are too many damn assaulters to gun down on time.

None of them are cheap to begin with. But CSM are one of a few sources of shooting in the list. A few meltas can earn you BT points faster than charging in. Especially since you might be taking rhinos to match the speed of the rest of your list and to get another cheap source of BT points - the rhino itself. On the sidenote: looks like you can't take a dozer, right?..

That's a gamble, ofc. Sometimes you'll be better off with fearless zerks. Sometimes, with shootier CSM.

How do you think, is it wort taking 10 with 2 specials or just stick to 8 with one?

 koooaei wrote:
None of them are cheap to begin with. But CSM are one of a few sources of shooting in the list. A few meltas can earn you BT points faster than charging in. Especially since you might be taking rhinos to match the speed of the rest of your list and to get another cheap source of BT points - the rhino itself. On the sidenote: looks like you can't take a dozer, right?..

That's a gamble, ofc. Sometimes you'll be better off with fearless zerks. Sometimes, with shootier CSM.

How do you think, is it wort taking 10 with 2 specials or just stick to 8 with one?

I would think that taking 10 guys to get 2 meltas (or plasmas, if you're so inclined) would be a good option. I plan to run mine that way, since more special shots = better chance at accomplishing something. Plus 10 still fits inside a rhino.
That said, sticking to 8 leaves the option to join an HQ character to the unit and still fit in a rhino. Both can be good options, and choosing the best option may require you to look at the rest of your list and see what works best with everything else.

Hmmm, Why not take Khorne heralds? just 55 pts to make them fearless and to get another BT point when it dies?

Is there enough place for a lord and a couple of heralds in the lists?

 koooaei wrote:
Hmmm, Why not take Khorne heralds? just 55 pts to make them fearless and to get another BT point when it dies?

Is there enough place for a lord and a couple of heralds in the lists?

If you run formations they dont give you alot of HQ, at all.
All in all, a single footherald would be a real waste of hq slot if you dont go unbound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yap, the main concept of assault lists people seem to neglect-accept the fact you are going to take heavy losses early on to shooting, because if you have enough dudes-SOMEONE is getting there.


Assault lists do not work if they got few amazing assault units. they are easy to avoid, and tend to overkill most shooters anyway.

Assault lists work when there are too many damn assaulters to gun down on time.

Trying to build a horde of 19p marines though... just think of what a normal army could counter with for those points. I would rather have a few fast, tough frontline bikes/juggernauts to soak up the shooties.

Well, i'm not talking about spaming heralds. Just a single herald to accompany 8 rhino marines. That's probably pushing the point cost up, however.

And yep, you're right. There ain't too much spare HQ slots in all the formations. Seems that one HQ goes to lord with an artifact or two - probably a matryoshka axe and a rune to help out vs psychers - and another to either a cheaper herald / second lord or S: D thirster.

But back to troops. Do you find cultists worth it? Khornate cultists are pretty expensive and at the same time unreliable for point-grabbing. Are they worth it with a special rule to sacrafice them? Something tells me that 8 bloodletters are gona be way more reliable due to fearless and 5++. Besides, they might occasionally stomp something that gets too close with a bunch of s5 ap3 attacks. Also, bs5 for manning an interceptor lazcannon? Is it worth the effort? Daemonkin are very short on ranged firepower, even a single LC might be game-changing.

Seeing as allying stuff in seems useful ... Anyone used Vrosh Tattersoul. Very heap for a hq tax .
A discount chaos Lord 65 pts with axe and combi melta.

Doesn't have fearless sadly.t..hinking he would be a good fit for leading the possessed , who lack ap2 and melta.


#edited to use correct name of chaos marine character, not end times fantasy hero.

One tactic that I've employed with the use of Bloodletters is to give them an Instrument and the Banner of Blood and put them in Reserve with a big model like a Soul Grinder. There's an element of chance but if the Bloodletters pass their reserve roll and you get a favourable scatter, you can then automatically bring in the Grinder nearby with no scatter, jamming it in a tight spot for maximum effect.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, i'm not talking about spaming heralds. Just a single herald to accompany 8 rhino marines. That's probably pushing the point cost up, however.

And yep, you're right. There ain't too much spare HQ slots in all the formations. Seems that one HQ goes to lord with an artifact or two - probably a matryoshka axe and a rune to help out vs psychers - and another to either a cheaper herald / second lord or S: D thirster.

But back to troops. Do you find cultists worth it? Khornate cultists are pretty expensive and at the same time unreliable for point-grabbing. Are they worth it with a special rule to sacrafice them? Something tells me that 8 bloodletters are gona be way more reliable due to fearless and 5++. Besides, they might occasionally stomp something that gets too close with a bunch of s5 ap3 attacks. Also, bs5 for manning an interceptor lazcannon? Is it worth the effort? Daemonkin are very short on ranged firepower, even a single LC might be game-changing.

Personally I really dont like bloodletters, but I guess they have a function as deepstrikers, particulary if they get summoned for free
Im tempted to deepstrike a terminator lord in with a unit of bloodletters behind enemy lines though.
All in all, i dont expect bloodletters to accomplish anything on their own, but I gues they could get lucky and mop up a small unit of marines if they get the charge.

Cultists are still really cheap, and you basicly bring even more profit if they die. Not sure how to best use them though. If your army suffer from delivery system for assaulters, you dont want to waste transports on cultists, makin them hard to manouver.
As a front line meat wall they might get in the way of your own assaults, so i would probably still use them as primary home objective campers. Due to their low point cost and the bonus if they die, I find them really usefull for the army.

Edit: its kind of fun to compare cultists and bloodletters; cultists with handwaepon and mark of khorne would most likely slaughter a unit of bloodletters twice as expencive, depending on who get the charge.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Seeing as allying stuff in seems useful ... Anyone used skarr bloodwrath? Very heap for a hq tax .
A discount chaos Lord 65 pts with axe and combi melta.

Doesn't have fearless sadly.t..hinking he would be a good fit for leading the possessed , who lack ap2 and melta.

He's a dataslate for CSMs so he isn't allowed in daemonkin

Yeah I mean for a cheap allied slot to get some of the good fw stuff in. Like a LR with legacy of 1st war of Armageddon

I've used both. Maybe I've overestimated the usefulness of zerkers, but every time that I've used them I can't help but think I've wasted points on a CC unit that probably won't see CC.

In my opinion, CSM's with nurgle mark, or plague marines are just as good as laying down the hurt (consider 1-2 more turns of better dakka than zerkers) and hold objectives much better (T5 > WS5 all day).

Zerkers need one of two things to stay balanced, but become viable: +1S outside of furious charge or weapons with better than 4AP available to rank and file. In the current meta, not many of them are going to get into CC to begin with. When they do, there should be some better guarantee of hurt.

I'll personally take 1 squad and zerks and 1 of CSM on my slaughtercult list.

Something I see didn't get mention is the fact that zerks are fearless, and CSM without VotLW are leadership 9 with the champion, once he dies on glorious challenge they are down to Ld 8 without. So... they have some good chances of being swept in combat.

Also, for the 2nd special weapons you need to get 10, compared to zerks that only need to be 8, since they lack any real special/heavy weapons options you can leave them at 8 man size and do as well as a 10 man.

if berserkers had received a new kit, they would have had a nice formation to give them a rules boost. Berkserkers suffered from the fact that everyone who plays Chaos Space Marines already has a ton of them.

I mean do you think the possessed tax in the slaughtercult was an accident? Of course not, they saw what the tomb blade tax on the decurion did for sales of tomb blades and did the same for possessed (a kit that has been really underbought).

Look at possessed, they get put in as a tax and get a buff.


If only GW wanted you to buy berserkers...