Making CSM legion rules without rewriting the whole codex - Alpha Legion Detachments inbound!

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**Talon of Anathrax**

Hey dakka!
Here is an idea I've been working on for some time. I'll be posting detachments for each legion/main CSM group (so I'll probably be including Red Corsairs), and I'd love feedback/tips! I'll be updating the lists to include any feedback, and I'll probably try out a few in my games (although I only really play death guard).
I'll be adding in a legion a day for now

Note that none of these detachments get objective secured.

First one: the Emperor's Children.

Spoiler:

So basically you're trading cultists and ObSec for rerolling reserves and to seize, the ability to buy sonic weaponry and rerolling morale/run moves/dangerous terrain if you're with an IC.
That doesn't seem overpowered to me - but is it underpowered?

**Roknar**

Might want to pitch in with my Decurion style chaos legions thread

**pelicaniforce**

I haven't even looked at the decurion thread, but you should read it. This isn't how detachments work, there isn't much allowance/restriction on specific units.

There also isn't much "may purchase." The best you can do for stuff like sonic weapons is say "may count weapon x (heavy bolter, e.g.) as sonic weapon y". Even that you would be more likely to see in a formation.

**Roknar**

You could force certain stuff with the formation restrictions, but it's probably a good idea to keep that kind of thing to a minimum.
I think it's a better idea to reward you or gently nudge you to taking them...Though if your going to play an emperors children formation..chances are your going to pick them one way or another ^^

**Talon of Anathrax**

@Roknar
I didn't really force that much here - I only banned really unfluffy options like Emperor's Children Plague Marines.

@pelicanforce
I looked at the decurion, and it's great!
However, I don't actually like that kind of concept for the forces of CHAOS. It just seems a bit too organised to me

Plus, I like more freedom in choosing my lists that formations or decurions afford.
I'm putting the "may purchase" stuff instead of rewriting an equipment list - but I couldn't really think of a better solution, sorry. If you have one, I'd love it!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyway, next up, the Iron warriors!

Spoiler:

**CadianXV**

Seems like a good project.

If you haven't, check out Just Dave's chaos codex. It has fluffy rules for Legions that may inspire you!

**Talon of Anathrax**

CadianXV wrote:
Seems like a good project.

If you haven't, check out Just Dave's chaos codex. It has fluffy rules for Legions that may inspire you!

Sounds sweet! Where can I find it?

Otherwise, here comes

Spoiler:

The Night Lords

Spoiler:

**Roknar**

all units that could already outflank have the acute senses USR.

Are you intentding this with warlord traits? Because last I checked we didn't have a single unit that could outflank....or scout..or infiltrate.......*waves fist angrily at GW*
I can only think of the slaanesh steed.

**Talon of Anathrax**

Roknar wrote:
all units that could already outflank have the acute senses USR.

Are you intentding this with warlord traits? Because last I checked we didn't have a single unit that could outflank....or scout..or infiltrate.......*waves fist angrily at GW*
I can only think of the slaanesh steed.

Yeah, I'm intendind this with warlord traits. I totally agree that that was a terrible design decision by GW

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next up, the World Eaters! Note that I really hesitated on whether or not to give them some sort of assaut transport - say, a rhino which considers all terrain as dangerous terrain but is open-topped, or rhinos that must be possessed but can get assault transport for +10pts.
Would that seem good and/or balanced?

Spoiler:

**Formosa**

I like the HOW idea but I would make it 8+, fluffy and actually achievable fairly often.

Deamons of khorne with chainxes is pretty pointless as they all universally have ap3 or ap2.

Add world eaters IC gain rampage too, it fits and helps WE HQ.s kick a little more ass in combat.

**Toastedandy**

Talon of Anathrax wrote:
@Roknar

Spoiler:

Iron Warriors Primary Detachment:
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.

I like the Iron warriors except for this rule, it doesn't make sense from the fluff that made me collect Iron Warriors(Storm of Iron). Iron warriors use cultists/prisoners of war/mutants etc as cannon fodder. They clear mine fields, dig trenches, move boxes,generally have a very short life expectancy and no dental plan (Very poor workers union).

Maybe to represent their arrogance, Characters cannot join units of Cultists?

I play Iron warriors with 40-80 cultists in 2,000pts lists. Their the front liners, to be sent in to run the opponents ammo stocks out for the heavy infantry to come in and mop up.

I also think making an exception for Marks of Khorne. Maybe a rule stating a character with Mark of Khorne cannot be warlord, and units with this Mark don't count as scoring units?
To represent the Forlorn Hope unit sent into the breach. Lads who displeased the Warsmith and sent on a suicide mission.

Its a really cool project and I look forward to seeing what other ideas you have

**Roknar**

^_- I never said that lol.
In my own decurion style chaos legions thread I actually buff cultists and encourage their use.

Those are Talons rules. While they don't use use cultists as part of their army much, I agree that flat out not allowing cultists might not be the best route. They are more like captured guardsmen that are flung at at the enemy to test their defenses.

But he's trying to do something different from me. In a pure Iron warriors detachment it kinda makes sense. After all, it doesn't stop you from taking an allied detachment with a bunch of cultists, or even an actual IG detachment for that extra mile.

**Toastedandy**

Roknar wrote:
^_- I never said that lol.

Sorry dude, it was just a poor editing job on the quote. I'll be sure to check out your work, it sounds very interesting

**Talon of Anathrax**

Toastedandy wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:
@Roknar

Spoiler:

Iron Warriors Primary Detachment:
Eternal superiority: Cannot take cultists.

I like the Iron warriors except for this rule, it doesn't make sense from the fluff that made me collect Iron Warriors(Storm of Iron). Iron warriors use cultists/prisoners of war/mutants etc as cannon fodder. They clear mine fields, dig trenches, move boxes,generally have a very short life expectancy and no dental plan (Very poor workers union).

Maybe to represent their arrogance, Characters cannot join units of Cultists?

I play Iron warriors with 40-80 cultists in 2,000pts lists. Their the front liners, to be sent in to run the opponents ammo stocks out for the heavy infantry to come in and mop up.

I also think making an exception for Marks of Khorne. Maybe a rule stating a character with Mark of Khorne cannot be warlord, and units with this Mark don't count as scoring units?
To represent the Forlorn Hope unit sent into the breach. Lads who displeased the Warsmith and sent on a suicide mission.

Its a really cool project and I look forward to seeing what other ideas you have

Okay! Thanks a lot for your tips about the cultist, I'd completely forgotten that!
Original post is getting edited to this:
Eternal superiority: Although cultists can be taken as part of this detachment, they cannot be the only troop choices taken. Furthermore, in-game, treat cultists as allies of convenience to the rest of the detachment.
This stops them being the only trrops, and stops characters joining them like you said (and more accurately represents their relationship whithout being too penalising in-game IMO).
I'm still dissalowing MoK, as although I think your concept is pretty cool, I doubt that those guys would already have had the MoK and they couldn't just get it for a single mission just by asking for it. Otherwise, a case could be maid for every mark...
To represent the lads sent into the breach, just load up normal CSM with melee weapons - that works well enough, as those guys never really live long enough to become melee specialists (and those who do become the awesome MUTILATORS

)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Formosa wrote:
I like the HOW idea but I would make it 8+, fluffy and actually achievable fairly often.

Deamons of khorne with chainxes is pretty pointless as they all universally have ap3 or ap2.

Add world eaters IC gain rampage too, it fits and helps WE HQ.s kick a little more ass in combat.

Great idea! I've got that added - although I changed it to HQ to let Daemon Princes get it

I'm not too sure if they get it base though.

**Talon of Anathrax**

New update: the Death Guard.
I have a slight problem with these though: what do I do to make plague marines worth it, as opposed to MoN marines?

Spoiler:

**pelicaniforce**

Talon of Anathrax wrote:
New update: the Death Guard.
I have a slight problem with these though: what do I do to make plague marines worth it, as opposed to MoN marines?

Spoiler:

Death Guard Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +2 troops, +1 elites, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Death Guard Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 troops, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Chem munitions are really nice.

I have a few questions:

+2 Troops and -1FA to what? To what are you adding two troops?

Why did you move Plague Marines to troops, which isn't an ability any other detachment has, instead of expanding the amount of Elite, which most detachments have an ability similar too?

I know it might be because Terminators et al are in Elite, but that's also true for the Baal Strike Force, which isn't supposed to have lots of TDA either.

The name "DG Primary Detachment" concerns me. Say I'm using a CAD of Dark Eldar, a Great Waaagh! and a Death Guard Primary Detachment. Does that mean I have to use the Death Guard as the primary, even though they are normally all eligible? If not, it seems like you should use a different name.

**Filch**

Needs heavier and painful restrictions and forcing the requirement to take useless units.

**Talon of Anathrax**

Next up, the Thousand Sons

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pelicaniforce wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:
New update: the Death Guard.
I have a slight problem with these though: what do I do to make plague marines worth it, as opposed to MoN marines?

Spoiler:

Death Guard Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +2 troops, +1 elites, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Death Guard Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 troops, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Chem munitions are really nice.

I have a few questions:

+2 Troops and -1FA to what? To what are you adding two troops?

Why did you move Plague Marines to troops, which isn't an ability any other detachment has, instead of expanding the amount of Elite, which most detachments have an ability similar too?

I know it might be because Terminators et al are in Elite, but that's also true for the Baal Strike Force, which isn't supposed to have lots of TDA either.

The name "DG Primary Detachment" concerns me. Say I'm using a CAD of Dark Eldar, a Great Waaagh! and a Death Guard Primary Detachment. Does that mean I have to use the Death Guard as the primary, even though they are normally all eligible? If not, it seems like you should use a different name.

I'm moving Plague Marines to troops as world Eaters, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons have similar abilities: fluff states that almost all of their normal CSM have changed into [their god's unit].
I meant I was trying to add +2 troops and -1 FA to the Force Org chart. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this clearer, or is it just a misreading problem?

Thanks for the info about the name! I hadn't thought it could be a problem, but hey, I've never really made that kind of list muself

I don't suppose you have any suggestions on how to fix that?

**Roknar**

Maybe just something to keep in mind. all those detachments are still eligible. Primary detachment only means that your warlord has to be from that detachment. You can still take DEldar and orcs.
Though typically the rules are written in such a way that IF some detachment is a primary detachment you get a bonus....normally the warlord trait re-roll.

**pelicaniforce**

Talon of Anathrax wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pelicaniforce wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:
New update: the Death Guard.
I have a slight problem with these though: what do I do to make plague marines worth it, as opposed to MoN marines?

Spoiler:

Death Guard Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +2 troops, +1 elites, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Death Guard Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 troops, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Chem munitions are really nice.

I have a few questions:

+2 Troops and -1FA to what? To what are you adding two troops?

Why did you move Plague Marines to troops, which isn't an ability any other detachment has, instead of expanding the amount of Elite, which most detachments have an ability similar too?

I know it might be because Terminators et al are in Elite, but that's also true for the Baal Strike Force, which isn't supposed to have lots of TDA either.

The name "DG Primary Detachment" concerns me. Say I'm using a CAD of Dark Eldar, a Great Waaagh! and a Death Guard Primary Detachment. Does that mean I have to use the Death Guard as the primary, even though they are normally all eligible? If not, it seems like you should use a different name.

I'm moving Plague Marines to troops as world Eaters, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons have similar abilities: fluff states that almost all of their normal CSM have changed into [their god's unit].
I meant I was trying to add +2 troops and -1 FA to the Force Org chart. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this clearer, or is it just a misreading problem?

Thanks for the info about the name! I hadn't thought it could be a problem, but hey, I've never really made that kind of list muself
I don't suppose you have any suggestions on how to fix that?

What do you hope to gain by "moving" these units to troops? Do troops have any special status that Elites do not?

I don't know which force org chart you mean, is the problem. How many troops do you end up with? Two? As far as I know, you are adding to zero.

**Roknar**

I'm pretty confident that he's referring to the BRB basic force org chart from the combined arms detachment.

**Filch**

gw needs to boost sales by using decurion to sell low sales models since those crap units are given beneficial rules only when taken in a Decurion formation. Not make a Decurion formation that already use top selling models.

I shake my head at GW sales tactics. Oh wait they dont need tactics when they have wealthy fanboys buying all their junk unquestionably and pre ordering.

**Talon of Anathrax**

pelicaniforce wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pelicaniforce wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:
New update: the Death Guard.
I have a slight problem with these though: what do I do to make plague marines worth it, as opposed to MoN marines?

Spoiler:

Death Guard Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +2 troops, +1 elites, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Death Guard Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 troops, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark of Nurgle or be a Daemon of Nurgle must do so. Plague Marines are troop choices. Death Guard treat Daemons of Tzeench, models aligned to Tzeench and models with the Mark of Tzeench as come the apocalypse allies, and cannot take any independent characters that lack the Mark of Nurgle or the Daemon of Nurgle Special rule.
Chem-munitions: All flame weapons in the detachment can choose to have chem-munitions for free. They gain the rending and gets hot USR, and no longer count as flame weapons (for example, they can now wound an Avatar of Khaine).
Blessed of Nurgle: for 5pts, any model with the Mark of Nurgle can buy the FnP (5+) and Stubborn (should it be Fearless?) USRs. However, they have -1I.
Eternal superiority: Cannot take any cult troops apart from Plague Marines. All plague marines in the detachment have FnP (4+) instead of FnP (5+), and VoTLW for free.

Chem munitions are really nice.

I have a few questions:

+2 Troops and -1FA to what? To what are you adding two troops?

Why did you move Plague Marines to troops, which isn't an ability any other detachment has, instead of expanding the amount of Elite, which most detachments have an ability similar too?

I know it might be because Terminators et al are in Elite, but that's also true for the Baal Strike Force, which isn't supposed to have lots of TDA either.

The name "DG Primary Detachment" concerns me. Say I'm using a CAD of Dark Eldar, a Great Waaagh! and a Death Guard Primary Detachment. Does that mean I have to use the Death Guard as the primary, even though they are normally all eligible? If not, it seems like you should use a different name.

I'm moving Plague Marines to troops as world Eaters, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons have similar abilities: fluff states that almost all of their normal CSM have changed into [their god's unit].
I meant I was trying to add +2 troops and -1 FA to the Force Org chart. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this clearer, or is it just a misreading problem?

Thanks for the info about the name! I hadn't thought it could be a problem, but hey, I've never really made that kind of list muself
I don't suppose you have any suggestions on how to fix that?

What do you hope to gain by "moving" these units to troops? Do troops have any special status that Elites do not?

I don't know which force org chart you mean, is the problem. How many troops do you end up with? Two? As far as I know, you are adding to zero.

Oh yeah sorry, @Roknar is right - I meant the BrB one.
How do you think I could fix that (or the problem you mentioned earlier about the names)?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Filch wrote:
gw needs to boost sales by using decurion to sell low sales models since those crap units are given beneficial rules only when taken in a Decurion formation. Not make a Decurion formation that already use top selling models.

I shake my head at GW sales tactics. Oh wait they dont need tactics when they have wealthy fanboys buying all their junk unquestionably and pre ordering.

Please stop :(

**Roknar**

How do you think I could fix that (or the problem you mentioned earlier about the names)?

Just mention it in the opening thread I guess...the actual supplement or whatever would have the proper charts and it would be immediately clear.

**Talon of Anathrax**

Next up, the Word Bearers!

Spoiler:

**Talon of Anathrax**

The Alpha Legion.
I really hesitated about these, so please tell me if they're too weak / too overpowered.
Consider that they basically get much more reliable (and sometimes very slightly nerfed) warlord traits.

Spoiler:

**natpri771**

Talon of Anathrax wrote:
Next up, the World Bearers!

Spoiler:

World Bearers Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 elites, -1 fast attack, -1 heavy support
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark or be a Daemon must do so. World Bearers cannot take any independent characters that lack a Mark of Chaos or the Daemon Special rule.
Fanatical: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment does not have the Zealot USR. Instead, he and his unit can choose to automatically pass or fail any Ld test and gain the hatred (everything) USR.
Dark Preachers: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment gains +1W, +1A, +1 to his invulnerable save and +1 I from his blessings from the gods of chaos, but cannot take daemonic steeds or Marks of Chaos (although they count as having one).
Blessings of the Ruinous Ones: All units from this detachment have Fear.
Enemies of the Imperium: All units from this detachment have hatred and preferred enemy (armies of the Imperium)

World Bearers Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 troops, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark or be a Daemon must do so. World Bearers cannot take any independent characters that lack a Mark of Chaos or the Daemon Special rule.
Fanatical: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment does not have the Zealot USR. Instead, he and his unit can choose to automatically pass or fail any Ld test and gain the hatred (everything) USR.
Dark Preachers: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment gains +1W, +1A, +1 to his invulnerable save and +1 I from his blessings from the gods of chaos, but cannot take daemonic steeds or Marks of Chaos (although they count as having one).
Blessings of the Ruinous Ones: All units from this detachment have Fear.
Enemies of the Imperium: All units from this detachment have hatred and preferred enemy (armies of the Imperium)

Firstly, they're called WORD Bearers, not WORLD Bearers. Secondly, get rid of of the "Fanatical" rule, if they're fanatical, then they won't retreat. Thirdly, get rid of them all causing fear because a) That's the Crimson Slaughter's job and b) There is not really any good reason for people to fear the Word Bearers over any other warband. Finally, get rid of the "Devoted" rule, as a mark of a god means that you are favoured by that God, but Word Bearers are big on the idea of chaos undivided. I would personally have a special rule that says that they must take a Dark Apostle as a compulsory HQ choice and bring some of the Horus Heresy rules to the table. Considering the problems CSM have with morale, being able to roll 3D6 for morale checks and pick the lowest 2 or at least giving them stubborn would be great. Re-rolling 1s when making sweeping adances wouldn't be bad either.

Talon of Anathrax wrote:
The Alpha Legion.
I really hesitated about these, so please tell me if they're too weak / too overpowered.
Consider that they basically get much more reliable (and sometimes very slightly nerfed) warlord traits.

Spoiler:

Alpha Legion Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: as normal
Special:
Distrustful of Chaos: Alpha Legion cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost for troop choices), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Alpha Legion cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Alpha Legion.
The many-headed hydra: This detachment can choose not to have a warlord. While this does mean that they have no warlord trait, it also means that their opponent can have no VP from slay the warlord.
Adaptive tactics: One of these rulesets (names italicised) must be chosen for the detachment at deployment (+1 for every Chaos Lord in the detachment). Unless stated, they apply to all units from this detachment, and only units from this detachment.
Forward Planning: You can redraw all Tactical Objectives on first turn
Master of Manoeuvre: 1 unit gains outflank.
Coordinated Assault: When several of your units are locked in combat with the same enemy unit, they can reroll failed to-hit rolls and gain the Crusader USR.
Divide to Conquer: -1 to opponent's reserves
Princeps of Deceit: During the first enemy turn, 3 enemy units take a pinning check at -1
Tactical genius: You can discard up to 2 active Tactical Objectives at the turn's end instead of 1
Target Priority: Select up to 2 units on deployment: all of your units can reroll 1s to hit when attacking them.
Strategic Genius: +1 to Seize and re-roll reserves

Alpha Legion Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: as normal
Special:
Distrustful of Chaos: Alpha Legion cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost for troop choices), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Alpha Legion cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Alpha Legion.
The many-headed hydra: This detachment can choose not to have a warlord. While this does mean that they have no warlord trait, it also means that their opponent can have no VP from slay the warlord.
Adaptive tactics: One of these rulesets (names italicised) must be chosen for the detachment at deployment (+1 for every Chaos Lord in the detachment). Unless stated, they apply to all units from this detachment, and only units from this detachment.
Forward Planning: You can redraw all Tactical Objectives on first turn
Master of Manoeuvre: 1 unit gains outflank.
Coordinated Assault: When several of your units are locked in combat with the same enemy unit, they can reroll failed to-hit rolls and gain the Crusader USR.
Divide to Conquer: -1 to opponent's reserves
Princeps of Deceit: During the first enemy turn, 3 enemy units take a pinning check at -1
Tactical genius: You can discard up to 2 active Tactical Objectives at the turn's end instead of 1
Target Priority: Select up to 2 units on deployment: all of your units can reroll 1s to hit when attacking them.
Strategic Genius: +1 to Seize and re-roll reserves

Get rid of the "Distrustful Of Chaos" rule. It is an established FACT that the Alpha Legion regularly uses cultists and that cultists make up a huge part of their warbands. Part of their tactics is sponsoring chaos cultist activities and therefore, wining battles without anyone ever being aware of their involvement. An Alpha Legion detatchment should benefit cultists and encourage their use. The Alpha Legion also actively uses daemons, provided they are close enough to a warp rift, so the daemons thing is debatable. I would, however, keep the chaos marks thing.

Sources:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alpha_Legion
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers

**Talon of Anathrax**

natpri771 wrote:
Talon of Anathrax wrote:
Next up, the World Bearers!

Spoiler:

World Bearers Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 elites, -1 fast attack, -1 heavy support
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark or be a Daemon must do so. World Bearers cannot take any independent characters that lack a Mark of Chaos or the Daemon Special rule.
Fanatical: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment does not have the Zealot USR. Instead, he and his unit can choose to automatically pass or fail any Ld test and gain the hatred (everything) USR.
Dark Preachers: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment gains +1W, +1A, +1 to his invulnerable save and +1 I from his blessings from the gods of chaos, but cannot take daemonic steeds or Marks of Chaos (although they count as having one).
Blessings of the Ruinous Ones: All units from this detachment have Fear.
Enemies of the Imperium: All units from this detachment have hatred and preferred enemy (armies of the Imperium)

World Bearers Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: +1 troops, -1 fast attack
Special:
Devoted: Everything that can take a Mark or be a Daemon must do so. World Bearers cannot take any independent characters that lack a Mark of Chaos or the Daemon Special rule.
Fanatical: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment does not have the Zealot USR. Instead, he and his unit can choose to automatically pass or fail any Ld test and gain the hatred (everything) USR.
Dark Preachers: Any Dark Apostle from this detachment gains +1W, +1A, +1 to his invulnerable save and +1 I from his blessings from the gods of chaos, but cannot take daemonic steeds or Marks of Chaos (although they count as having one).
Blessings of the Ruinous Ones: All units from this detachment have Fear.
Enemies of the Imperium: All units from this detachment have hatred and preferred enemy (armies of the Imperium)

Firstly, they're called WORD Bearers, not WORLD Bearers. Secondly, get rid of of the "Fanatical" rule, if they're fanatical, then they won't retreat. Thirdly, get rid of them all causing fear because a) That's the Crimson Slaughter's job and b) There is not really any good reason for people to fear the Word Bearers over any other warband. Finally, get rid of the "Devoted" rule, as a mark of a god means that you are favoured by that God, but Word Bearers are big on the idea of chaos undivided. I would personally have a special rule that says that they must take a Dark Apostle as a compulsory HQ choice and bring some of the Horus Heresy rules to the table. Considering the problems CSM have with morale, being able to roll 3D6 for morale checks and pick the lowest 2 or at least giving them stubborn would be great. Re-rolling 1s when making sweeping adances wouldn't be bad either.

Talon of Anathrax wrote:
The Alpha Legion.
I really hesitated about these, so please tell me if they're too weak / too overpowered.
Consider that they basically get much more reliable (and sometimes very slightly nerfed) warlord traits.

Spoiler:

Alpha Legion Primary Detachment:
Force Org Chart: as normal
Special:
Distrustful of Chaos: Alpha Legion cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost for troop choices), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Alpha Legion cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Alpha Legion.
The many-headed hydra: This detachment can choose not to have a warlord. While this does mean that they have no warlord trait, it also means that their opponent can have no VP from slay the warlord.
Adaptive tactics: One of these rulesets (names italicised) must be chosen for the detachment at deployment (+1 for every Chaos Lord in the detachment). Unless stated, they apply to all units from this detachment, and only units from this detachment.
Forward Planning: You can redraw all Tactical Objectives on first turn
Master of Manoeuvre: 1 unit gains outflank.
Coordinated Assault: When several of your units are locked in combat with the same enemy unit, they can reroll failed to-hit rolls and gain the Crusader USR.
Divide to Conquer: -1 to opponent's reserves
Princeps of Deceit: During the first enemy turn, 3 enemy units take a pinning check at -1
Tactical genius: You can discard up to 2 active Tactical Objectives at the turn's end instead of 1
Target Priority: Select up to 2 units on deployment: all of your units can reroll 1s to hit when attacking them.
Strategic Genius: +1 to Seize and re-roll reserves

Alpha Legion Allied Detachment:
Force Org Chart: as normal
Special:
Distrustful of Chaos: Alpha Legion cannot take cult troops (and all marks are at twice their listed cost for troop choices), and they treat Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. Alpha Legion cannot take any unique characters with a Mark of Chaos or who are Daemons of a specific Chaos God, unless they are explicitly stated to be Alpha Legion.
The many-headed hydra: This detachment can choose not to have a warlord. While this does mean that they have no warlord trait, it also means that their opponent can have no VP from slay the warlord.
Adaptive tactics: One of these rulesets (names italicised) must be chosen for the detachment at deployment (+1 for every Chaos Lord in the detachment). Unless stated, they apply to all units from this detachment, and only units from this detachment.
Forward Planning: You can redraw all Tactical Objectives on first turn
Master of Manoeuvre: 1 unit gains outflank.
Coordinated Assault: When several of your units are locked in combat with the same enemy unit, they can reroll failed to-hit rolls and gain the Crusader USR.
Divide to Conquer: -1 to opponent's reserves
Princeps of Deceit: During the first enemy turn, 3 enemy units take a pinning check at -1
Tactical genius: You can discard up to 2 active Tactical Objectives at the turn's end instead of 1
Target Priority: Select up to 2 units on deployment: all of your units can reroll 1s to hit when attacking them.
Strategic Genius: +1 to Seize and re-roll reserves

Get rid of the "Distrustful Of Chaos" rule. It is an established FACT that the Alpha Legion regularly uses cultists and that cultists make up a huge part of their warbands. Part of their tactics is sponsoring chaos cultist activities and therefore, wining battles without anyone ever being aware of their involvement. An Alpha Legion detatchment should benefit cultists and encourage their use. The Alpha Legion also actively uses daemons, provided they are close enough to a warp rift, so the daemons thing is debatable. I would, however, keep the chaos marks thing.

Sources:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alpha_Legion
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers

Whoops! sorry for the typo on the Word Bearers (note that I tend to do each detachment by modifying a copy-pasted version of the last one, so it may appear everywhere. I'll edit it away later.)
I love your ideas for them though!
I admit that my fluff knowledge of them is pretty terrible (I hated Lorgar - I just don't get his motives

and so I never really bothered reading up on their backstory). Whay do you think of them now [I've edited my original post, and given them different rules. I don't really wanna force them to take a specific HQ choice: I really just want to represent the fact that the Word Bearer ones are the best by giving them some bonuses].

However, I do think that I will keep the distrustful of chaos rule, for two reasons:
1. Nowhere does it stop them from taking cultists (I'm not that stupid

)
2. While they do use chaos for their own ends, I thought that they rarely actually trusted Daemons. the fact that they are allies of convenience represents this: they can still work together effectively enough, but they can't really combo their abilities as brothers (like Tzeench daemons buffs or the grimoire) - they are nowhere near as close as the Death Guard and Nurgle for example!

**natpri771**

Just remember when doing Word Bearers is that they have it engineered into their gene-seed to be absolutely fanatically devoted to one thing. They were meant to be the most loyal troops in the Imperium and they were. The only problem was, thanks to a screw up on the Emperor's part, was that they became so devoted to the Emperor that they began to worship him as a god. After the Emperor punished them for this, they switched their allegiances to the Primordial Gods of Colchis (Chaos Gods). Ironically, what was supposed to be the most loyal legion became the most treacherous. Think of them as the ISIS of 40k.

Sorry, I misread cult troops (IE: Beserkers, Noise Marines, Plague Marines and Thousand Sons) as cultists.