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Hi Folks,

I'm wanting to go to a tournament in 5 weeks. I haven't played in a "Serious" tournament before, just some small time stuff at my local GW. It was well before our current codex, I think it was early 6th edition. I play competitively with my buddies, but we're completely Kosher with proxying things, primered / unpainted models, that sort of thing. So my selection for making a tournament friendly list is limited to what I've got ready to go, and things I can get ready in the meanwhile.

So that said, here's the list I've put together. The plan is to have a fully mobile force, grinding forwards 6" a turn. The infantry platoon is, sadly, a straight-up meat shield for the tanks, to ensure they have a cover save. I don't know what kind of terrain I'll be playing on. Sadly, that means I'll be binning models as fast as I can grab them, to the tune of about 250 points worth of infantry, in all likelihood.

Here goes!

1850 - Astra Militarum - I prefer all my enemies... to die!

200 - Company Command Squad: Astropath, Power Fist, Shotgun, Kurov's Aquila, Vox, 2x Meltagun, Flamer
65 - Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer

25 - Ministorum Priest: Joins Conscripts

111 - Veterans: Boltgun, Vox, 2x Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Autocannon
65 - Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter

111 - Veterans: Boltgun, Vox, 2x Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Autocannon
65 - Chimera: Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter

31 - Platoon Command Squad: Boltgun Rides in Vendetta, late game obj grabber. Lieutennant Dan always survives the crash, then eats 8-14 wounds, every game.

61 - Infantry Squad: Boltgun, Melta Bombs, Grenade Launcher

61 - Infantry Squad: Boltgun, Melta Bombs, Grenade Launcher

60 - Conscripts [20]:

105 - Militarum Tempestus Scions [5]: Power Axe, 2x Meltagun

100 - Militarum Tempestus Scions [5]: 2x Plasma Gun

170 - Vendetta: 3x Twin-Linked Lascannon

145 - Devildog: Melta Cannon, Multi Melta

105 - Scout Sentinel Squadron [3]: 3x Multi-Laser

175 - Leman Russ Vanquisher: Lascannon, 2x Plasma Cannon

195 - Leman Russ Executioner: Lascannon, 2x Plasma Cannon

Items of Flexibility:

I like to keep the Vets flexible, since they can only fire 2 weapons from the hatch. At long range, Plasma + BG / AC. Short range, meltas for vehicles, Plasma/Melta for tough stuff. The weapons are flexible, but I don't have the time to add Carapace Armour, cloaks, that sort of thing.

I'm considering swapping the Priest for a Commie with Power Axe. Reason being that the Commie's Ld is 2 points higher than a Priest, so would make issuing orders to them much more reliable. They may have poor BS, but 20 Conscripts with 3 shots each, rerolling 1's to hit and wound do a pretty good chunk of damage. Being more reliably able to issue a "shoot and run" order is good to increase their mobility late game, if they aren't tied up with something.

For some reason, my CCS always winds up in an assault. Always. I have a PF / Shotgun Sergeant model, so I was like, "What the hell, I'll make him a Colonel." That's flexible though, I'd look at a Power Axe instead if 10 points was awesome elsewhere.

Really, I'd listen to weapon load out arguments for any infantry. The Scions will be pretty fixed though. Old Kasrkin models are a bitch to convert.

The Chimera are fixed load outs, as are the Sentinels and the Vendetta. The First Russ is fixed, but the second could be a Demolisher, Executioner, or Punisher, with any extra guns. The Devildog is flexible, currently a Banewolf but I think I'm going to change that up.

I also have the bits to make a reasonable Hydra. I have an Aegis with Quad, but don't have the hard copy to use it at the tournament, just the 6th Ed book. Not that I'd want to use either, really, given the build.


The name of the game is to keep the CCS central, to allow Kurov's Aquila to provide it's bonus to hit and wound to as many units as possible. March up the centre of the field, try to secure that centre, and then blast away until I'm wiped from the board. Keep the Vehicles nearby, and then thread some infantry models close enough to the central Chimera to benefit the unit.

I have no solutions to Mega-Death Stars. I have no additional codices to draw allies from. I've got a bucket-load of dice and a shirtful of guts, and by the Emperor's Grace I shall play people that will utterly destroy me, but I'll do it on my feet, Dammit!

As a fellow guard player, who has learnt the hard way, here is some advice and maybe what to expect. In a more "serious" tournament, you are going to need to be able to answer several of the large threats running around. First, you need to be able to answer imperial knights. Guard don't have fun things that let you run around the knight. The most you can hope for is put a few lascannons on the side, and some meltas on the front and hope the one side he doesn't shield gets through. Otherwise, you are trying to shoot through the 4++ which is doable but not ideal. This is made worse when fighting AD-Lance, cause now there are three and they reroll saves. They are not slow and will kill you. Next up, is wave serpents backed by wraithknights. The serpents are not scared of your one or two autocannons and vanquisher shot. In fact, they will kill the chimeras and the vets inside. The wraithknights will probably move forward and assault your vets and kill your leman russes. Hive tyrants are the number 3. Your vendetta will do well, as they are not that great at killing it unless they get to rear. But, unless you go first and get super lucky, you are looking at them dominating the table. They need weight of rerollable dice to take down from the ground. Lasguns can do it, but there has to be ALOT. Last are bike marines. Centurions are a problem, but not as bad compared to other armies. Bikes are fast, need 6's to wound with our basic guns and will get to pick where they kill us.

Things you may want to consider:
Your HQ is 265 points. Most armies cringe when HQ's start costing that much. Guard hq's usually come in two forms. The order giver, or the lead from the front with a bunch of weapons. Take what is necessary for either role. In either case, he does not need any gear for the commander. He will lose in combat no matter what he has. If mine are back field order givers and they have a chimera, they will typically be around 165 points or less. Lascannon or mortar, MoO, vox, maybe standard. Driving forward, 4 meltas or 4 plasma. Maybe carapace.

Veterans don't know what they are doing. They have meltaguns so they need to get close, but have an autocannon which needs to stand still to shoot effectively. Also one autocannon will not kill anything. Vox's are unnecessary. I mean you can have them, but I find my vets are scattered all across the board.

Platoon. The PCS needs something. They are one of my favorite units. A cheaper command squad that you don't care what happens to. 4 flamers in a vendetta is the common setup. Can flush troops out on objectives. Just give them something.
Conscripts are fine. The screen they provide can be priceless. Consider a commissar for them. Higher leadership may help. The priest needs to go with a platoon if you are running a blob. Your infantry squads have grenade launchers. No one is scared of them ever. Flamers are a better option cause at least there will be wall of death. I prefer 30-40 man with lascannons a priest and a primaris psyker. They hold the fort so to speak.

Tempestum are cool, though axe is questionable, but I'm on board for it. Probably looks cool and may come in handy.

Sentinels are fine, though I like autocannons. These guys can show up in unexpected places and be a general pain.

Vanquisher needs a lascannon, thats it. Since it shoots at tanks across the board, the plasma is extra points you could use elsewhere.

The executioner needs preferred enemy or it kills itself. I understand you have the aquila. But this tank does not justify that purchase.

You may be limited in models, but you need to lower the general costs of your units for more focused roles. Vets can be 2 melta's heavy flamer chimera, copy paste a couple times. You may want to squeeze in prescience somehow. Divination psykers add so much.

I agree with a lot of what Bona is saying, I would go further to say that your list is not "min maxed" to the degree of what your are fighting will be. Not even close.

Guard's few advantages they have left is that they are cheap. Their upgrades are not cheap. More guys and more dakka is always better than fancy toys.

HQ-
If your CCS is in range to use their Melta Guns there is a problem IMO unless you are running them as a suicide squad that is not your Warlord. In this case, a Tempestus Command squad does this job better. A more min-maxed approach would be-

CCS, Chimera, ML/HB, MoO/Astropath

Priest with Conscripts is good.

Troops
Veterans-
Same as what Bona said, they are not properly min-maxed. You need 2x Melta with a Heavy Flamer, 3x Melta, or 3x Plasma with Carapace. These are generally accepted as the optimal loadouts for Mechvets.

Platoon-
Ditch the melta bombs, grenade launchers, boltguns. If these guys are in range to be assaulted there is a problem. Optimal loadout if you have the models would be 3 Infantry squads with Lascannons and a Commissar to help pass orders with Ld9. Psyker support is also a good idea.

Conscripts with Priest is good.

Elite-
Scions- Ditch the power axe, these are not close combat soldiers. That's the Space Marine's job.

Fast-
Devil Dog- If your this desperate for AT then that is a bad sign. Ditch it or run it as a Hellhound to kill off small objective holder squads or hordes. Stun and Shaken results are the bane of your existence.

Vendetta- Good

Scout Sentinels- Would advise autocannons or Heavy flamers + outflank.

Heavy-
Vanquisher- generally accepted as a bad option unless fielded as an HQ tank for BS4 or with Pask. That one shot will fail you, especially against things like Knights as Bona mentioned.

Executioner- Needs PE or a techpriest baby sitter. Best paired with pask or put into a Steel Host formation.

As per mentioned before ditch the axe on the scions. for the squad with plasmas give em meltas. DS both to harass tanks/knights.

what was mentioned before for vets is good.

the aquila is good for the executioner gets hot rolls. and other units within range. maybe get another executioner to make the relic more worth it.

give ccs plasmas so they can stay back and give supporting fire and orders.

get rid of devil dog. get another vendetta.

Thanks for the replies.

My HQ is expensive, but I feel it is leveraging a great deal of benefit to at least 11 units with Kurov's Aquila...
-CCS + Chimera
-Vets + Chimera
-Vets + Chimera
-LR Vanq
-LR Exec
-Conscript Blob
-Infantry Squad
-Infantry Squad
So divided out equally between those units, Kurov's Aquila is a roughly 5-6 point upgrade per unit. The HQ itself is 200 points, so down to 140 after that, including a Psyker to roll on Telepathy. I mean, Invis is unlikely, but it could happen! At least I get Shriek, which is a pretty balls-out power for 25 points. Everything is moving, so a MoO isn't going to be very useful to me. The Strategy is to roll forward in one big mass, and pulverise individual threats in proximity order. I intend to place objectives centrally, if I get an option, so will hopefully be able to grind my way onto multiple objectives in close positioning.

I'm not going to have a valid answer to Knights, so I hope not to face them. *shrug* I just don't have models suited to taking them on, and you need a solid 350 points worth of Melta DS troops to even try that tactic, and if you fail they all get wiped. I feel I can answer Bikes, as I play White Scars more often than any other army, and am able to deal.

Serpent spam, or any mid-AV spam, will be troublesome, but I'll have to manage as best I can. This is my entire collection of Vehicles, and while I have scores of infantry, most have upgrades or options that are no longer useful.

Veterans with this load out work well for me. I can only shoot two weapons at a time from the hatch, so I fire the long range weapons as I roll forward [snapshot AC's] and if I get close enough to target tough stuff, I switch to MG's or mix of MG + PG for MC's. I move slowly, so need to be flexible in what I want to attack. I don't get to choose what I shoot, I get to shoot whatever my opponent leaves in range.

PCS is ONLY an objective Thief. They'll go to ground as soon as someone shoots at them. They'll probably be shot out of the sky before deployment, and all die before firing a shot. I took a Bolter because I had a point left over. *shrug* I'd need to take points from something else, and I don't know why I would.

Axe on Scion is because the old Kasrkin model had a sword, and I can convert it to a more useful axe pretty easily. I don't want to be bothered with conversion to a chainsword, may as well go all out. Besides, I see a good deal of CC these days in my group, I'm going to see what's what in the wide world.

Plasma on a Vanq gives it versatility, something I value. It's also strong enough to attack that mid-av I'm worried about, and the 3' range should be sufficient to touch anything once I get to mid-board... if I get there. Everything's rolling forwards, after all. Strength in numbers and all that.

If I had AC's, I'd run them on the Sentinels... and if I had extra armour I'd put that on and use them as Armoured Sentinels. Old models didn't have that.

Exec has PE from Kurov's Aquila. The Aquila Leverages 11 units, probably 100 shots or so if I'm able to target things within 24".

Platoon Squads are marching along in front of the Tanks, so they'll be in assault range. For certain. I chose cheap yet handy upgrades for that role. So are the Conscripts, though I hope to be able to tarpit something elite with them.

I don't have a second Vendetta, so I'm going to try the Devil Dog. I think they're "ok" and I don't anticipate the Hellhound as being more useful with the wide array of Lasguns, Multi-lasers, Heavy Bolters, and other horde-splashing weapons I'll have floating around.


It's not the strategy I'd like to use, but it's one I can do with my available models. I'd like to play Blood Angels, but I don't have enough models or a legitimate codex.

So basically, you asked for advice, then was like "Nah, I'm gonna stick with my list."

If you have scores of infantry, just bring an all foot list and play for turn 3. No one will like you, but there is no way they will kill you. Probably win on points if you are clever. First blood is really hard to give on a foot list.

I suppose you could take it that way. I have reasons for taking what I have, that I explained. I also have a limited supply of models to pull from, which I've attempted to make mention of. I explained the strategy I was going for, that most of the advice would have moved me away from. In particular, ideas focused on keeping distance between myself and my opponents.

I was simply trying to explain the reasons why I took things... the expensive CCS, lack of answers to Knights, why the Vets I took have seemed to work well in the past... so on. Sometimes individual equipment is somewhat necessary due to model limitations, which I've also tried to explain.

I do appreciate the feedback, there just isn't much I can do about it by the time I get to the tourney, so I'm trying to steer suggestions towards what would work with the "overall" strategy that I'm trying to work at.