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So still thinking about what army to go with (will probably make a choice here in a month. I've been giving Chaos space marines and their friends a look over for awhile in trying to decide what army to focus on coming back to WH40k. Forgive me if there's some big erroneous fubar on my part as i don't yet have the BRB or any of the new codex's. Using battle-scribe and forums as much as i can before dropping infinite amounts of excessive cash on GW products again hehe.

Thing with chaos is i can use the dark vengeance boxes and a lot of the cool mini's in them to get started with chaos. Love the helbrutes but seems that 98.7654% of folks hate them as being noncompetitive/not point worthy...

Seen a lot of lists that run a khorne lord on juggernaugt with AoBF joined to bikers or spawns. Also read some dirty fully xxx-rated tricks/tactics about running be'lakor and casting invis on said khorne lord for kicks and giggles and tears that ensue from the other side of the board.

So i'm curious about this set-up.

Chaos Space Marines: Combined Arms Detachment (vanilla CSM codex)

Headquarters: 255 points

255 - Daemon Prince - axe of blind fury, MoK, power armor, wings, warlord

Elites: 100 points

100 - Helbrute - powerfist, multi-melta

Troops: 150 points

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

Fast Attack: 490 points

170 - Heldrake - baleflamer

160 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoK

160 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoK

Heavy Support: 375 points

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

Chaos Daemons: Allied Detachment

Headquarters: 350 points

350 - Be'lakor, The Dark Master

Troops: 100 points

100 - Bloodletters of Khorne Mob x10

Heavy Support: 180 Points

180 - Soul Grinder of Chaos - MoK, Warpsword, Baleful Torrent

tallies up to 2000 points on the dot.

thought about mixing MoK and MoN (MoN on spawns and grinder) but kept everything as MoK for a bit of fluff i guess. i reckon the spawns and grinder would probably weather the battlefield better with papa nurgle's blessings.

One big aspect i could be royally screwing up and worried there is some rule im unaware of, is the assumption that belakor can cast said invis on the DP w/ AoBF after they both get up field asap. this whole list might be all for naught if belakor can't cast a spell on another daemon (prince with MoK for that matter). could also cast it on the maulerfiends too. target priority seems to be a pita for the other side of the table. lots of nasties that can bring the hurt moving across the board. yeah the troop choices are really skimpy and weak and that might be why the list fails for objective controlling. warpgaze on the soulforge is probably better but the baleful torrent seems a bit more fluffy with khorne and only 1 heldrake in the list could probably use a second anti-horde template attack.

thought about dropping a pack of spawn and 1 cultists mob so i can get a mayhem pack (just because i love the helbrute model hehe).

Oh well, i've probably gone and broken some cardinal chaos rule of some sort. Any C&C, suggestions, tips, insight, advice, etc is always appreciated.

Thanks,

Tak

I say, go whole hog on the Nurgle, including dropping your MoK DP. Switch Belakor to the CSM detachment and in his place take a MoN DP with at least 1 greater gift to turn into the Insta-Death Plague sword. Suddenly you DP is much harder to kill (2+ jink) and can go through wraithknights like a hot knife through butter.

Deamon Prince is much better with the black mace instead of axe of blind fury, fleshbane ends up being stronger and you dont lose the 9 Ws which is highly coveted. and mark of nurgle will probably serve you better on him as previously mentionned.

Spawn are insanely better as nurgle too, and giving them mark of khorne is mostly useless as they already have rage, giving them counter attack isnt bad but turning them into T6 which is partially eternal warrior since even Str10 wont insta death them is much much better.

Nurglings are really very good, consider it this way, they do the exact same thing that Riper Swarms(tyranid) do, for the same points but they are pretty much twice as strong, and people still use ripper swarms.
in a CAD or allied detachment, they are just very annoying and hard to move objective holders with OS. potentially you could go with 2 units of them instead of one unit of bloodletters.

Trully the Nurgle side is better, in the vanilla codex I only really go for mark of Khorne for a juggerlord with axe of blind furry in a unit of khorne bikers and sometimes for some CSM

all the other units can usually be better off with Nurgle.

if you wanna go Khorne the new Daemonkin codex really gives you some great stuff to work with.

 gardeth wrote:
I say, go whole hog on the Nurgle, including dropping your MoK DP. Switch Belakor to the CSM detachment and in his place take a MoN DP with at least 1 greater gift to turn into the Insta-Death Plague sword. Suddenly you DP is much harder to kill (2+ jink) and can go through wraithknights like a hot knife through butter.

is belakor part of chaos space marines codex? not seeing him.

i'll work up a revamp with full list thats been touched by papa nurgle on lunch break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so at break thought about this (not sure i can take belakor with csm cad though?

Chaos Space Marines: Combined Arms Detachment (vanilla CSM codex)

Headquarters: 340 points

340 - Daemon Prince - the black mace, MoN, power armor, wings, warlord, mastery level 3

Troops: 100 points

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

Fast Attack: 530 points

170 - Heldrake - baleflamer

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

Heavy Support: 375 points

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

Chaos Daemons: Allied Detachment

Headquarters: 335 points

335 - Daemon Prince - exalted gift x1, lesser gift x1, MoN, warp armor, daemonic flight, warlord, mastery level 3

Troops: 120 points

60 - Nurglings Pack x4

60 - Nurglings Pack x4

Heavy Support: 195 Points

180 - Soul Grinder of Chaos - MoN, Warpsword, Baleful Torrent

tallies up to 1995 points.

i could take warp gaze on soulgrinder or maybe take ichor blood on CSM cad DP.

Belakor is a dataslate and can be an HQ for either CSM or Demons.

Ive always preferred Phlegm for my Nurgle Soulgrinders as its more conducive to sitting in cover. Baleful Torrent is more a MoS style weapon as it meshes well with the ability to run 1d6+3 with Fleet.

ahh hah found dataslates in battlescribe

so if i have belakor as hq for CSM cad, should i bother to make the flying nurgle DP for a psyker (1/2/3)?

If you have the points. The extra dice would help Belakor get his abilities off, not to mention give you a viable summoning psyker, or if you lack the models, biomancy and telepathy are still fantastic.

ok so with shuffling things around...

Chaos Space Marines: Combined Arms Detachment (vanilla CSM codex)

Headquarters: 350 points

350 - Be'lakor, The Dark Master

Troops: 100 points

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

50 - Chaos Cultists Mob x10 - autopistols

Fast Attack: 540 points

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

Heavy Support: 375 points

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

Chaos Daemons: Allied Detachment

Headquarters: 310 points

310 - Daemon Prince - exalted gift x1, lesser gift x1, MoN, warp armor, daemonic flight, warlord, mastery level 2

Troops: 120 points

60 - Nurglings Pack x4

60 - Nurglings Pack x4

Heavy Support: 205 Points

205 - Soul Grinder of Chaos - MoN, Warpsword, Phlegm Bombardment

tallies up to 2000 points on the dot again.

I dropped the heldrake for another pack of nurgle spawn (heldrake seems a bit daunting to me for a good paint job at the moment anyways - if i fubar a paintjob on a chaos spawn - its not the end of the world - and in all probability folks will be like oh wow awesome paintjob - thats one ugly spawn hehe). short points to get mastery 3 on the nurgle dp so went with exalted gift and lesser gift. not sure whats on the tables hehe. No helbrutes in the list but i do like the models that are in there

So Khorne Daemon kin is no good?

 Filch wrote:
So Khorne Daemon kin is no good?

oh sure... wait until i get to good papa nurgle list worked out, then pipe up and demand fealty to khorne...

Khornate demon's biggest problem is that, aside from flesh hounds, their units are completely outshined by units from the other chaos gods.

Bloodletters are the worst of the 4 troops. Bloodcrushers are outclassed by Plague Drones and Screamers. MoK is horribly on soulgrinders. And both Lords of Change and Great Unclean Ones are vastly superior to Bloodthirsters.

For the nurgle deamon prince your missing the greater gift which will allow you to get the instant death poisonned weapon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the warpsword isnt really worth it on the soulgrinder, 25 pts for +1 attack and master crafted is just too much

Chaos Space Marines: Combined Arms Detachment (vanilla CSM codex)

Headquarters: 350 points

350 - Be'lakor, The Dark Master

Troops: 120 points

60 - Chaos Cultists Mob x12 - autopistols, champions shotgun

60 - Chaos Cultists Mob x12 - autopistols, champions shotgun

Fast Attack: 540 points

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

180 - Chaos Spawn Pack x5 - MoN

Heavy Support: 375 points

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

125 - Maulerfiend

Chaos Daemons: Allied Detachment

Headquarters: 315 points

315 - Daemon Prince - greater gift x1, MoN, warp armor, daemonic flight, warlord, mastery level 3

Troops: 120 points

60 - Nurglings Pack x4

60 - Nurglings Pack x4

Heavy Support: 180 Points

180 - Soul Grinder of Chaos - MoN, Phlegm Bombardment

tallies up to 2000 points on the dot.

was able to make the nurgle dp a level 3 psyker after shuffling around the daemonic gifts.

Deliciously brutal. seems a shame not to have a nurgle bikerlord amongst those spawn tho.

Very nice, I like it, the black mace CSM deamon prince is just as good as the deamon codex one, more attacks, you can always do the switch.

Nurgle summoner prince is also an option (though less so if you are taking bel'kor and want to throw lots of dice at invis).

Burning brand and spell familiar lets him reliably summon on 5 dice, psychic scream on 1 dice and burning brand in the shooting phase all while being 'hard to hit' (and stick to ruins if you don't want to have to jink).