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Hey guys.

In a bit of a conundrum.

Vehicle rules state you must be obscured 25% to get a cover save.

Ruins rules state a model in ruins receives a 4+ cover save regardless of being obscured.


To me, it stands to reason that a vehicle in ruins would get a 4+ cover regardless of being obscured.

Any help?!

A lot of people house rule this, but no, vehicles have their own rules for cover saves using facings and obscured. Ruins giving a 4+ cover save applies non-vehicle models.

I don't have the book in front of me, but if it says "regardless of being obscured", then that specific wording seems to override the general rule of requiring some obscurement.

 Yarium wrote:
I don't have the book in front of me, but if it says "regardless of being obscured", then that specific wording seems to override the general rule of requiring some obscurement.

That's what I thought. Lol

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
I don't have the book in front of me, but if it says "regardless of being obscured", then that specific wording seems to override the general rule of requiring some obscurement.

That's what I thought. Lol

Well, jreilly89 thinks differently. Like I said, I don't have my rulebook in front of me and am just going off the wording that you posted.

The rules for vehicles say they can only get cover saves through obscurement. The rules for ruins don't override this so no vehicles don't get cover for just being in a ruin.

Why wouldn't the rule for ruins override this. It states a model in a ruin, which a vehicle would be. And states receives the cover save regardless of whether or not it's obscured.

@Yarium, Actually, jreily89 mentioned that a lot of people house rule it so the vehicles in ruins do get cover saves just for being in ruins but with out such a house rule they do not. He is right and as far as RAW goes you agreed with him.

@Dalymiddleboro, Its in the vehicles section, under Vehicles and Cover – Obscured Targets. The RAW in the book is pretty clear on this.

Vehicles are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins. The 25% rule given above takes precedence.

There is specific wording in the vehicle rules that say they don't get area cover from things like "woods and ruins." It calls it out explicitly, so there's not even a chance for a problem. As DJG said, RAW is very clear.

 DJGietzen wrote:
@Yarium, Actually, jreily89 mentioned that a lot of people house rule it so the vehicles in ruins do get cover saves just for being in ruins but with out such a house rule they do not. He is right and as far as RAW goes you agreed with him.

@Dalymiddleboro, Its in the vehicles section, under Vehicles and Cover – Obscured Targets. The RAW in the book is pretty clear on this.

Vehicles are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins. The 25% rule given above takes precedence.

Yep. Given how area terrain and ruins are defined, me and some friends usually house rule it as such, but RAW vehicles must be obscured for cover.

As others have said, it's explicitly stated that vehicle only get cover save from being 25%+ obscured, not for just staying there.

Also don't forget, that if a vehicle is 25% obscured, it get's the cover save that the cover provides normally. So 5+ for intervening units, 4+ for ruins, etc.

I find this rule particularly annoying, and we often house rule it.
RAW, vehicles only get saves if they are 25% or more obstructed.

However, trying to eyeball 25% on an Ork Trukk is so abstract. The trukk is mostly in the front/cab area and the bottom. The back panels make up so little of the vehicle itself. Are we supposed to go with 25% of the surface area or 25% of the vehicle profile? Because then we would look at including the roll bars on top as part of the vehicle.

So often before games I will go over this and we will agree on how we want to play. Do vehicles benefit from being in cover or are we doing pure obscurement?

It's clear in the book that, no, they do not. What surpasses me though is these people house ruling that they get it for having a milliliter of their tracks in the sand surrounding their cover, so they are as protected as people hiding in destroyed buildings or behind fortified aegis defense lines... We do understand what cover saves represent right? But sure, House Rule away.

 Icculus wrote:
I find this rule particularly annoying, and we often house rule it.
RAW, vehicles only get saves if they are 25% or more obstructed.

However, trying to eyeball 25% on an Ork Trukk is so abstract. The trukk is mostly in the front/cab area and the bottom. The back panels make up so little of the vehicle itself. Are we supposed to go with 25% of the surface area or 25% of the vehicle profile? Because then we would look at including the roll bars on top as part of the vehicle.

So often before games I will go over this and we will agree on how we want to play. Do vehicles benefit from being in cover or are we doing pure obscurement?

25% of the facing as observed by the firing model. In my experience when you are dealing with two honest players, if one of them thinks the model is obscured it probably is.