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A couple of weeks ago I put the finishing touches to a footslogging Iyanden list. 4 units of wraithguard, 2 spiritseers, 2 wraithlords and a wraithseer. I'd add in some war walkers, spiders and hawks to round out the list. No wraithknight, no wave serpents, no bikes, no warlocks. Nobody would have considered that OP or competitive one week ago.

Now GW puts strength D on the wraiths and I can just imagine the sneers of derision that list will bring...

But it's got me thinking. Footslogging wraithguard are no more difficult to kill or avoid now than they were last week. So, is a list built around wraith units (guard and lords) walking across the board OP? I think no. Or will the mere sight of one wraithguard cause so much upset that I might as well not bother?

I'm really quite annoyed that all the cash I've dropped on those models could end up a waste....

I'd forfeit to you. So there's one data point.

Honestly, that's the one list that I (Necrons) would willingly play. I feel I have enough AP3 or at least weight of fire to kill a few before they get to me. My main gripe is when they turboboost in a Wave serpent right up into your front lines. Or sillier even, DS with no scatter because of Dark Eldar.

But no, that list shouldn't be too bad.

BA don't have the firepower to make a dent. And so, forfeit.

Still waiting for point cost and stats on the seers. But yea wraith units are good if they had a distort weapon on them.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I put the finishing touches to a footslogging Iyanden list. 4 units of wraithguard, 2 spiritseers, 2 wraithlords and a wraithseer. I'd add in some war walkers, spiders and hawks to round out the list. No wraithknight, no wave serpents, no bikes, no warlocks. Nobody would have considered that OP or competitive one week ago.

Now GW puts strength D on the wraiths and I can just imagine the sneers of derision that list will bring...

But it's got me thinking. Footslogging wraithguard are no more difficult to kill or avoid now than they were last week. So, is a list built around wraith units (guard and lords) walking across the board OP? I think no. Or will the mere sight of one wraithguard cause so much upset that I might as well not bother?

I'm really quite annoyed that all the cash I've dropped on those models could end up a waste....

Really, you're local gaming group is the best to ask.

What's gonna burn you even more is that it would appear that the Iyanden book will be invalidated and that you now have an army with no Troops units

What if, Ironically, Wraithguard can't take Wave Serpents anymore, and thus have to footslog?

I doubt it, but hey, one can wish.

 krodarklorr wrote:
What if, Ironically, Wraithguard can't take Wave Serpents anymore, and thus have to footslog?

I doubt it, but hey, one can wish.

That would help a lot of lists, I agree.

 Quickjager wrote:
Still waiting for point cost and stats on the seers. But yea wraith units are good if they had a distort weapon on them.

They're the same as before, apparently.

It is nasty, simply because the D weapons don't give a damn whether they're hitting a guardsman or a Land Raider, the result is the same.

However, if you're that worried, just keep using the 6th book. As you say, no one would have an issue with that list from that book last week, so why would they now?

 krodarklorr wrote:
What if, Ironically, Wraithguard can't take Wave Serpents anymore, and thus have to footslog?

I doubt it, but hey, one can wish.

That would certainly help, though I don't think we've been given any indication to think such is true, and there'd still be ways to get them into a transport.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
What if, Ironically, Wraithguard can't take Wave Serpents anymore, and thus have to footslog?

I doubt it, but hey, one can wish.

That would certainly help, though I don't think we've been given any indication to think such is true, and there'd still be ways to get them into a transport.

I mean, Rhinos specifically can't take Terminators. Could be the same concept. It is more of just wish listing at this point, but for the sake of balance, I feel it would've made a huge difference. Plus, in tournaments, just DS them with an Archon and there you go anyway.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I put the finishing touches to a footslogging Iyanden list. 4 units of wraithguard, 2 spiritseers, 2 wraithlords and a wraithseer. I'd add in some war walkers, spiders and hawks to round out the list. No wraithknight, no wave serpents, no bikes, no warlocks. Nobody would have considered that OP or competitive one week ago.

Now GW puts strength D on the wraiths and I can just imagine the sneers of derision that list will bring...

But it's got me thinking. Footslogging wraithguard are no more difficult to kill or avoid now than they were last week. So, is a list built around wraith units (guard and lords) walking across the board OP? I think no. Or will the mere sight of one wraithguard cause so much upset that I might as well not bother?

I'm really quite annoyed that all the cash I've dropped on those models could end up a waste....

Really, you're local gaming group is the best to ask.

What's gonna burn you even more is that it would appear that the Iyanden book will be invalidated and that you now have an army with no Troops units

That's another galling change too. I now have to go unbound to run my old list how I wanted it. The loss of obsec on wraiths is a huge nerf IMO.

The D weapons are so short ranged and no invul save means wraiths aren't that hard to take down i just don't get all the hate for wraithguard, if they're footslogging...

I've only really got corsairs as a list to fall back on, I hope FW does a decent job of updating them...

I don't miss obsec on BA at all really. It's not that big of deal, I think.

The Wraithblades and Wraithlord seems to have no complaints at all, nor the Wraithseer or Spiritseer either. This is even with the Wraithseers D-Cannon, because it still has the old rules with it.

 Shigematsu wrote:
The Wraithblades and Wraithlord seems to have no complaints at all, nor the Wraithseer or Spiritseer either. This is even with the Wraithseers D-Cannon, because it still has the old rules with it.

None of them have D weapons do they? (Except the one you mentioned). I think a big part of it is just that there was absolutely no need to give these units D weapons. I'm not even sure they're overpowered except the Wraithknight, but there was no need whatsoever to give infantry units the ability to remove any model from the table on their standard guns.

One thing I saw is I don't think Wraith units can be Troops without going Unbound? Although I don't really know a lot about that stuff, only reason I'm even remotely interested is at one point I wanted to do an all-Wraith army because I had the idea to make my own Craftworld that was basically lost in a catastrophe and everyone except the Spiritseer was dead.

Please lord don't let FW mess up the wraithseer! That thing is my absolute favourite model and I just have to include in any list. Even if I have to drop my wraith units to 1 and make them wraith blades, I will always include the wraithseer in my lists even if he gets SD, which I'm sure he will as he's already overcosted with his d-cannon.

I'm biased as a primarily eldar player, but I think the Iyanden list you've proposed would be perfectly reasonable to face against. The list is mostly slow. The few fast units are reasonably fragile. The d-weapons are nasty against multi-wound things, so I'll just try to mitigate you using it against such units.

A casual dark eldar lists would actually do reasonably well against such an army. Feed some wyches to the wraithguard to eat overwatch, then charge in an archon with a huskblade to kill a few wraithguard a turn. Lhameans, grotesques, harlequins, and even talos (assuming you were careful with their positioning) would all cut them down reasonably quickly too.

Anything with poison (scourges, warriors in splinter wrack raiders, venoms, etc.) will kill each wraith lord as quickly as they would a trio of marines. The wraith seer is cool, but a single d-weapon on it (if you even take that option) is not that scary.

Plus, the whole army is slow enough for the dark eldar to kite it a few turns, charging up their PFP batteries while they get a few easy dark lance and splinter cannon kills.

Someone mentioned Blood Angels, and I don't see this list being *that* scary for them either. The wraith list has to come towards you to do anything. You can feed the wraith guard some tac marines or scouts or something for overwatch, then use a relatively small squad of death company with jump packs (to help you keep your range) and hammers to wreck whichever squad you went after. Razorbacks and vindicators will both put sizable dents in this army before it can get into range, and Mephiston is actually pretty well equipped to hurt any unit in this army in melee if you buff his strength.

Marines in general can use similar tactics. Snipers in general are actually quite good against this list as they ignore the high toughness of the army and can potentially ignore armor.

A tyranid swarm is actually pretty alright against these guys. Gaunts don't care about your d-weapons much. You can land every hit and, and they'll still have enough buddies to make it into combat. If the -1 to the d-table rumor is true, you'll only be landing about 6 wounds with a 10 man squad anyway (assuming you don't miss at all). Gaunts themselves won't do much damage, but the wraiths will be slow to untarpit themselves, and genestealers or MCs can both be quite nasty to wraiths. You almost might consider not flying your flyrant as he'll have a good charge range on the ground and can still jink against the odd incoming shot (which is a 2+ save with a venomthrope nearbye).

Orks can stand to lose a few bodies to overwatch, then slowly smash up the wraiths with klaws. Just watch out for wraith lords as they're actually characters and can thus challenge.

Slaaneshi daemons and anything poisonously nurgle can take enough affordable troops to drown this army in rending, poisonous bodies.

Necron destroyers should do a lot of damage to this army at a distance, and (as d-weapons only kill one guy per hit at most) can probably replenish their warrior ranks with ghost arks and such. Ghost arks also aren't a terrible way to gauss the lords to death at a distance.

I see plenty of counters to your list, and I suspect people will calm down about the d-weapons once we see them on the table. Chin up. Might want to avoid d-scythes though. >_>