Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Aka: Not Just Bikes Alone.

In light of the 7th Eldar Dex, the two main complaints have been focused on Scatter bikes and Ranged D. While the D is another discussion topic altogether, tweaking Troops that Bikes are not the auto take should be easier:

* Guardian Jetbikes go from 3+ -> 4+ armor save. Scatter Lasers fielded by Jetbikes have range 18" instead of 36".

* Dire Avengers go from 4+ -> 3+ armor save.

* Guardian Defenders go from 9 pts/model -> 8 points/model. Storm Guardians go from 9 pts/model -> 7/model.

This buffs the troops which didn't get taken, moderately boosts Avengers (whom are slightly less appealing due to the Serpent nerf), and makes Jetbikes a risk/reward glass cannon rather than the unholy hybrid of a Devestator Squad and Bike Squad.

Thoughts on the proposed Troop Changes, or if you would do anything differently?

Reducing the range of the Scatter Lasers isn't going to do much when they're mounted on some of the fastest units in the game. They need to have the "1 out of every 3 may take" option back rather than this tweak.

I disagree, look at warp spiders. Warp spiders and scatter laser jetbikes are about equal in points-firepower ratio.

Warp spiders are great, but 12 inch range is a huge hindrance,

and they are one of the fastest in the game.

The 1 in 3 tweak has been proposed before and I can see it being a thing. Even then, you still have what is basically a really efficient support team that can fulfill the min troop tax for less than a min-sized Dire Avenger squad.

Reduced Range and a worse armor save also expose them to stuff like Torrents/fast msu assault, and forces Jinks against Autocannons, while making attempting to flank vehicle AV a riskier prospect.

Instead of recosting everything. The main issue with scatbikes was cost. Increase the cost of the scatter upgrade and you don't need to decrease the cost of other troops. To many rules changes for mass exceptance. I think most tournaments and clubs will just take the easier route of straight up banning the range d wraith knight of the club/tourney even allows LOW superheavies/gargantuans. And making every other str d unit utilize the nerfed d scythe rules.
Bikes I have no clue but I suspect it's either going back to the 1 in 3 upgrade or increasing the cost of scat upgrade to 15ppm.

See, it's not the cost I consider the main issue. It's the fact that this unit is fast, long-ranged, able to threaten infantry and light vehicles through weight of fire while avoiding a good share of return fire by jumping out of range/behind terrain, while maintaining a good armor save, before turbo-boosting endgame to obsec several objectives, and (most important ) is a troop so fills a mandatory tax while working both as a Fast Attack and Heavy Support in a slot normally relegated to footslogging cannon fodder/transport unlockers. If nothing else, this affords the Eldar player greater economy of force and better ability to out -msu his opponent.

Reduce both armor (ignore cover AP 4 is a lot easier to get vs Ignore Cover AP 3) and range and your opponent has to consider the tradeoffs of sacrificing his Bikers to take out your stuff. Buff Guardians and Avengers (aas frankly, Guardians are the weak option and Avengers only existed to unlock Serpents), and Bikes are still good but they now are no longer the auto-take choice. If you make the Scats 15 pts on top...it's now an interesting debate if you want to pay 99 pts for 3 T4 4+ minis with an 18" range.

I must say, I think I prefer the 1-in-3 change to the 18" change myself. Never fielded them myself, though, so I can't really speak to it. The 3+ -> 4+ doesn't sound bad, either. But if it weren't for the Scatter Laser, we'd have just been hearing about the absurdity of massed Cannons. After all, the counterpoint to bladestorm is supposed to be short range/low S or low volume...

DAs don't need a 3+ armor save. Fewer Craftworlders, not more, should have that, IMO. Sure, they die twice as fast to Boltguns as Marines, but they hit a bit harder (not twice as hard), and they had shorter range, but more maneuverability. What they need is either a decent transport (which isn't so bad now - the Serpent is 5 pts cheaper and no longer the gunboat it was, and the Falcon can be taken in units of 3), or to be used as a short range counter unit. Mine do work as is all the time.

I think foot Guardians are going to surprise people. They might not have changed, but Seer Councils, marginally better buffs, Warlocks in Units giving more WC than in Councils, the Warhost options, and the Avatar himself, I think we're going to see some Guardians this edition.

Avengers are more effective versus high-toughness targets versus lower-toughness ones simply because of Bladestorm. However, they do absolutely nothing to vehicles. As problematic as Tacs (or their Scout counterparts) are due to their relative lack of mobility, the Tacs do get grenades and can do melta/combo melta duty. Given they are supposed to be an aspect about the balanced art of attack & defense, it would make more sense for them to get the 3+ instead of their Guardian Jetbike rivals, IMO.

As for Warlocks...ehhh, we'll see. Conceal is always nice to have, but Warp Charge is always a logarithmiic return on investment. For pre-7th psyker rules, yes, conceal-locks rule, but when you need 2 WC to make a lvl 1 chance have a 3 in 4 success rate...on the other hand, the Hemlock is looking sexy regardless and can provide the extra charge (and makes me wish Chaos got Flying psykers *grumble grumble*). Storm Guarda could use the love too, especially since they are glorified melta-caddies. The point-break may just be enough to make them a viable contender vs DAVU or scatterbikes *shrug*.

DAVU is much weaker in this book, I think. Thankfully. We may see DAs in Serpents, but that'll be to get DAs where they want them, not just to take the Serpent.

I suppose I just don't think DAs and Guardian Defenders need buffs to be viable (Tac Marine viable, not ScatterBike viable).