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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/20 18:06:01
Subject: Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Sacrifice to the Dark God Tzeentch
Labrador, CA
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Greetings Everyone, Just have a quick basic rules question that I see people in battle reports always playing it differently than the rule book states (unless I'm overlooking something, which is why I'm here).
Am I correct in saying the following?
Models are not forced to melee attack only the models in B2B contact, as the rule book says they may divide their attacks from any in B2B or those they are ENGAGED with.
Definition of Engaged: A model is engaged in combat if:
- It is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
- It is within 2 inches horizontally and/or 6 inches vertically of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat.
Example: If a unit of Eldar Scorpions are locked in melee with a enemy unit of Assault Marines and a unit of Scouts. Can the Scorpion models who are only in B2B with a Assault Marine (but still within 2" of a friendly model in its own unit who is B2B with a Scout) choose to place his melee attacks against the Scouts rather than the Assault Marines in B2B?
Everything I see in the rule books states this is legal as they are engaged with both units. However I see so many people not play this rule this way and I want to make sure I'm not doing it wrong.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/20 18:23:00
Subject: Re:Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Models don't attack models, they attack units. A pool of wounds is built up that must be allocated to the attacked models. There are rules to determine what models get allocated wounds first. What you are looking at are the rules for what models in the attacking unit can attack at all.
Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in the Shooting phase. However, as you’ll often have many models in base contact with the enemy, there will be many models tied for the privilege of dying first.. To resolve casualty removal, allocate each Wound as follows:
A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative step. If there is more than one eligible candidate, the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model it is allocated to. Roll the model’s saving throw (if it has one) and remove the casualty (if necessary).
If there are no enemy models in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative step, the Wound is allocated to the next closest enemy model locked in that combat. If two or more models are equidistant from the attack, the player controlling the models being attacked chooses which model is closest. Take any save and remove the casualty (if necessary).
In either case, once a model has a Wound allocated to it during an Initiative step, you must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the Wound pool is empty.
So you can see, you can't try and allocate a wound to a model thats not in B2B contact when there is an eligible one that is in B2B contact.
Edit: Oh I just noticed you also mentioned a multiple combat scenario. You'll want to look at the rules for multiple combats (at the end of the fight sub phase rules) and specifically at the rules for directing attacks.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/20 18:26:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/20 18:50:07
Subject: Re:Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Screamin' Stormboy
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The way we do it where I play is that you can allocate any number of attacks to either unit as long as the models conducting those attacks are doing so within the measurements required (2" of friendly B2B). The only restriction we place is that at least one model needs to attack each unit. This includes initiative considerations for us.
Example: squad of 10 boyz charge Tacs(10 man) and Scouts(5 man). 4 make B2B with Tacs and 3 with Scouts. rest are within two inches of both units. Lets say I charged specifically to hold up both units (not to win) I would designate one or two orks on the Tacs and the rest on the scouts.(hoping to kill) Combat begins. Tacs kill 2 Orks then scouts kill 1 more. Our rules require that per your previous declaration at least one boy still has to attack the Tacs (the closest one at this point). Basically prevents target hopping and so the guy can't be like "Oh you killed the one that was going to attack that group so now all of the remaining will just attack the scouts." The only instance where that could happen is if the Tac squad killed enough orks to push them all outside of 2" after initiative step (2 for orks) pile in (highly unlikely). For us we find it helps to keep people honest.
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Ya Avarage Finkin Man-
"Boys before toys but all my boy's toys are boys holding toys so can the toys before the boys really be boys with toys?"
-raving lunatic
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/20 22:45:32
Subject: Re:Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ok, So in this example I have 10 models in my unit (white). My unit is locked in combat with two other units (red and green). All models are on 25mm bases so each base is give or take an inch in diameter. All of my models are engaged and for the sake of argument all of my models with initiative 4 (blue numbers) have 2 attacks each while the one at initiative 6 has 4 attacks.
Assuming this is the 1st round of combat and starting with initiative 6 I have to divide my 4 attacks. My one model at this initiative is engaged with both enemy units because it is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with at least one model from each unit. That means its 4 attacks can be divided any way I want between those units. I can direct 4 of them at the red unit and 0 at the green, or 2 at each or any combination. Lets say I send 1 at the red unit and 3 at the green unit. All 4 attacks hit and all 4 attacks wound. In the red unit the wounds must be allocated to model C because it is the only model in base contact with the guy attacking at this initiative. In the green unit model 1 must get all 3 wounds allocated to him because, while not in B2B with the attaching model it is the closest model to the attacker.
Both models pass enough saves to stay alive and no models have a 5 initiative so we move on to initiative step 4. I have to divide my remaining 18 attacks. 2 of my models are not engaged with the red unit because they are neither in B2B contact with a model in that unit nor within 2" of a friendly model that is but all of my other models are engaged with the green unit. $ of my attacks must be directed at the green unit and the remaining 14 can be split up however I like.
In total I send 12 to the red unit and 6 to the green unit. 9 of the 12 hit and 3 of the 9 wound. All 3 of these wounds could be allocated to models A or B as they are the only 2 in B2B contact with a model attacking at this initiative and my opponent will get to choose which one model gets all 3 wounds allocated to it one at a time until either the model is dead or the pool is empty. Only 1 of the attacks directed at the green unit wounds so my opponent can pick to allocate that wound to model 1,3,4 or 5 as all of them are tied for closest model as all of them are in B2B with a model attacking at this initiative.
Keep in mind this example presumes no models will move during the pile in step on initiative 4. This is actually quite unlikely so who is engaged with whom and what models are the closest and all that is re-determined every time there is a pile in move.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/20 22:48:23
Subject: Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Your models in top basing the red unit cannot attack the green unit since they are not in BTB. The I6 and the guy left of him.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/20 22:49:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/20 23:01:53
Subject: Re:Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Sacrifice to the Dark God Tzeentch
Labrador, CA
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@DJGietzen Thank you... that is how we play and the rulebook states.
@Fragile Are you saying the I6 model and the one to his left cannot attack green? I believe this is incorrect, because as DJGietzen and myself have stated is that although they are in B2B with the Red models... they are also within 2" of a model that is in B2B with Green. Therefore they are engaged with both Red and Green. The I6 model can indeed attack the Green models.
Thanks for all who have replied.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/21 07:05:36
Subject: Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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This is a change in 7th, as well as changing the definition of engaged.
You can now attack any unit that another friendly model is in btb with, if they are also within 2" of you, even if in base solely with another unit.
Similarly you are engaged if you are withing 2" of a friendly MODEL in base to base, NOT any longer within 2" of a friendly model *from the same unit* as you in base to base.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/22 18:18:24
Subject: Re:Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I feel the need to correct myself. The rules for directing a models attacks in a multiple combat can be misleading. We essentially have four conditions set up by two rules. the 1st two conditions set up by the 1st rule are...
If a model is in base contact with a single enemy unit it must direct all of its attacks at that unit.
If a model is engaged in combat with a single enemy unit it must direct all of its attacks at that unit.
The 2nd two conditions set up by the 2nd rule are...
If a model is in base contact with multiple enemy units it may split its attacks among those units.
If a model is engaged in combat with multiple enemy units it may split its attacks among those units.
So whats misleading is what happens when a model is in base contact with 1 enemy unit but is engaged in combat with multiple enemy units. Earlier in this thread I stated the model would be able to split its attacks. I was wrong. The 1st rule ans its two conditions take precedence. Some might argue that must trumps may, but I've based this decision on the example in the BRB of the space marines in a multiple combat with some eldar.
I've included an updated diagram of who may direct their attacks at whom.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/23 12:53:57
Subject: Re:Choosing where to place your melee attacks.
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Sacrifice to the Dark God Tzeentch
Labrador, CA
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@ DJGietzen Thanks for clearing it up... yeah it is a confusing situation. I have no idea how in all my research I overlooked the example on the page itself! haha... ohh well thanks.
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