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OK, this is for all the lovely Eldar players tired of the whining

How are you going to change your weapon options that are currently modeled? For example, I have shoulder mounted scatter lasers on my wraithlords but options for different weapon arms with magnets. Do I snip the scatter laser off and clean up the mess or leave it on for decorative show? Doubt I'll use a scatter on WL as I typically equipped them for AT work (brightlance).
Same for the wraithknight...I currently have suncannon/scattershield/scatterlaser. Since he can fire at other targets with the other weapons, what should I add?
lastly, the wave serpent. I already have the underslung shuricannon, so wondering if I should replace scatter lasers with shuricannons or starcannons.

Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
although since my force has a lot of low ROF weaponry (no bikes on my horizon), maybe I should keep the scatters around in case I face hordes. Not optimal loadouts but keeping everything as jack of all trades to face multitudes of enemies (I don't like building specifically to face certain opponents). I would like a few more shurican cannons in my force as I've always been fond of the disc throwers and it is the quintessential eldar weapon

Being the boring persont hat I am, I'll wait for it to be math hammered out by someone smarter or more awake than me.

I use lots of war walkers, so might need to change the Star/Scat options.

I am slightly annoyed that EML are still expensive though, I would have loved to run a few of them.

Goatseer wrote:
I am slightly annoyed that EML are still expensive though, I would have loved to run a few of them.

They're still expensive because they now come with the S7 AP4 Skyfire option for free. Most of our vehicles now come with a skyfire option that doubles as a S8 AP3 AT weapon. I'm currently converting my Wasps for that.

For modelling I magnetize most of my weapons but for ones that are not I dont worry about proxying too much.

For the WK I am not going to give him shoulder mounted guns I don't think - If I do will prob be star cannons as he is anti-elite.

I'm leaving scatters on my serpents and walkers (just became free, yey!). I never really used the scatter for its laser lock but more for its ROF which math hammers out as the best all rounder. Shuris get the nice rending but being one less shot and shorter range I have found them less effective on the table.

Running the melee wraithknight, going with the shuriken cannons for that one. My jetbikes have shuriken cannons too, so maybe one unit with all cannons, two smaller ones without. I've always run my serpent with bright lances, just because I prefer my one shot weapons twin linked.

Definitely changing up my Windriders, but not sure between Cannons and Lasers.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Definitely changing up my Windriders, but not sure between Cannons and Lasers.

Cannons. Everyone is terrified of the scatter lasers, but without laser lock they perform slightly worse against troops than cannons, even with one fewer shot. The scatter laser's performance is only slightly better against armor - but if you're using your bikes against armor with this codex, you've done something wrong.

Not really. Now I can try to strip hull points off of armor 10-11 cheap vehicles with little investment of points in my army. I would rather take my 81 point Scatterbike squad against a Rhino rather than my 175 point Dark Reaper squad.

For myself, the EML just became a worthwhile option. I have magnetized 9 War Walkers and can even debate Vypers finally. I have not used them in years.

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Definitely changing up my Windriders, but not sure between Cannons and Lasers.

Cannons. Everyone is terrified of the scatter lasers, but without laser lock they perform slightly worse against troops than cannons, even with one fewer shot. The scatter laser's performance is only slightly better against armor - but if you're using your bikes against armor with this codex, you've done something wrong.

I think you will find that on the wind riders laser lock will change nothing. In order for it to do something in the previous codex the model had to have multiple weapons firing.

I think the lasers are superior due to their range, which keeps you (when combined with jetbike rules) away from the fight for longer and so on. The extra shots mean more too.

The cannons do have their uses though.

24" range puts you in range of bolters and more importantly grav weapons. If you can stay 31" away from marines and keep shooting at them they're never going to kill anything.

Not going to be changing anything, as far as I know. I don't have the codex yet, and haven't read all the leaks, but I don't think any loadouts have been invalidated. Plus, I glued them down, so there's that.

I'm keeping the Scatter Laser, Suncannon, and Scattershield on my Wraithknight. It'll still be plenty effective without the ranged D (from what I've read here on Dakka, the Suncannon isn't strength D).

I only ever had three jetbikes, all identical with Catapults. Despite the cool new kits, I'm going to keep them that way, and not make the unit any larger.

But I am looking forward to using Guardians, Hawks, and Dark Reapers more - partly, but not only, because Wraithguard can't be Troops anymore.

 Swastakowey wrote:


I think you will find that on the wind riders laser lock will change nothing. In order for it to do something in the previous codex the model had to have multiple weapons firing.

I think the lasers are superior due to their range, which keeps you (when combined with jetbike rules) away from the fight for longer and so on. The extra shots mean more too.

The cannons do have their uses though.

 Toofast wrote:
24" range puts you in range of bolters and more importantly grav weapons. If you can stay 31" away from marines and keep shooting at them they're never going to kill anything.

Keep in mind that these are Eldar jetbikes with a free 2d6 assault move. A single Scatterlaser will strip 1.33 HP from AP 10 and .889 from A 11, while a Cannon will strip 1 HP from A 10 and .667 from A 11. The Scatter laser will kill .741 MEQ a turn, while the Cannon will kill .778. The real advantage to the cannons comes from the Windrider Host formation which gives all bikes Shred for one turn, bumping that number up to 1.037. On that turn, 30 bikes are going to kill 31 MEQs, vs the Scatter lasers 22. A first or second turn Tempest of Blades can cripple an army. With the abundance of anti-tank that Eldar already have in this new codex, I feel the cannons are actually going to be the slightly more favorable choice.

 Massawyrm wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Definitely changing up my Windriders, but not sure between Cannons and Lasers.

Cannons. Everyone is terrified of the scatter lasers, but without laser lock they perform slightly worse against troops than cannons, even with one fewer shot. The scatter laser's performance is only slightly better against armor - but if you're using your bikes against armor with this codex, you've done something wrong.

From another post of mine:

Scatter Lasers are better against:
T3 6+ (Kroot)
T4 6+ (Boyz)
T5 6+ (Grotesques)
T3 4+ (Scions)
T4 4+ (Necron Warriors)
T5 4+ (Deffcopta)
T5 3+ (Plague Marine)
Any invulnerable save/cover save
AV 10-12

They're the same against:
FMCs 4+
T6 4+ (Hive Guard)

In all other situations, Shuriken Cannons are better

 Toofast wrote:
24" range puts you in range of bolters and more importantly grav weapons. If you can stay 31" away from marines and keep shooting at them they're never going to kill anything.

that's just an issue with a poorly laid out table. There shouldn't be too many direct LOS chances at 30+ inches, but that's just a plague of most 40K tables.

bullyboy wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
24" range puts you in range of bolters and more importantly grav weapons. If you can stay 31" away from marines and keep shooting at them they're never going to kill anything.

that's just an issue with a poorly laid out table. There shouldn't be too many direct LOS chances at 30+ inches, but that's just a plague of most 40K tables.

It doesn't matter if you can only see a fraction of the model through loads of ruins. 4+ cover means nothing when you're already allowing them a 3+armour save and STILL have enough fire to whittle them down.

There aren't a lot of tables where you can outright lose all vision and not be able to sidestep a little when you have the insane moves that the eldar bikes do. I don't think that's an issue with "poorly laid out tables." You would need to have a table full of alleys with complete LOS-blocking terrain to achieve that, and that would severely hinder someone that only has 6" movement from ever reaching you.

Not that the current situation is any better. Fly around and put some ruins between you, and all you'll have to do at most is take some dangerous terrain tests, and you've now reduced that MEQ unit's move to get closer to you from 6" to D6".
So putting cover between you and what you're shooting at is helping the shooter
That's a problem with the rules, not the lay out of the table.

bullyboy wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
24" range puts you in range of bolters and more importantly grav weapons. If you can stay 31" away from marines and keep shooting at them they're never going to kill anything.

that's just an issue with a poorly laid out table. There shouldn't be too many direct LOS chances at 30+ inches, but that's just a plague of most 40K tables.

Jet bikes do move over terrain with ease... especially with move shoot move.

LOS blocking terrain should be a thing....unless all of the 40K verse is in ruins. And yes, the bikes can jump over it to get shots, but then they are more likely within range for retribution etc. Most 40K tables I have seen look like absolute poo and offer no tactical challenge whatsoever.