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Are Doom scythes worth purchasing? I understand that RAW rules state that templates can hit FMCs while swooping but they cannot be used on fliers. What's the consensus on this?
If they suck, whats the alternative for AA support?

2nd Question:
Can you take a battleforged detachment(CAD, Decurion) and add an unbound detachment and a fortification detachment and still be battle forged? Or once you take a unbound detachment everything is unbound?

I've never fully grasped this. I only ask because i'm thinking that i could take a single model necron unit like a cryptek or lord and have them man a quad gun in an aegis line.

Also understand that if the points are there that a tau firebase support cadre are a great choice.

I believe unbound and battle forged can't be mixed.

What would you need from unbound?

ABs are good anti air. Nuff said. Even though they went up in price I think they are still a solid tactical choice.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I believe unbound and battle forged can't be mixed.

What would you need from unbound?

Right now i am running -

Decurion w/lichguard
Canoptek Harvest formation
Triarch Judicator formation(what ever its called)
Deathmarks

Gotta blasted by 2 flyrants.

I don't want to leave a full 5 man unit in the back field to shoot a quad gun.
There is no option in the decurion to take just a one man squad, except maybe my overlord.
So i was thinking that i could take an unbound detachment and a fortification detachment and take a cheap single model unit that has good BS and an aegis line and that one guy mans the gun while everyone else is off killing.

Naaris wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I believe unbound and battle forged can't be mixed.

What would you need from unbound?

Right now i am running -

Decurion w/lichguard
Canoptek Harvest formation
Triarch Judicator formation(what ever its called)
Deathmarks

Gotta blasted by 2 flyrants.

I don't want to leave a full 5 man unit in the back field to shoot a quad gun.
There is no option in the decurion to take just a one man squad, except maybe my overlord.
So i was thinking that i could take an unbound detachment and a fortification detachment and take a cheap single model unit that has good BS and an aegis line and that one guy mans the gun while everyone else is off killing.

Unbound isn't a type of detachment. If you want to unbound then you don't get any detachments (except for formations specifically)

Also fortifications don't have a detachment. you can only take them in a CAD.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Naaris wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I believe unbound and battle forged can't be mixed.

What would you need from unbound?

Right now i am running -

Decurion w/lichguard
Canoptek Harvest formation
Triarch Judicator formation(what ever its called)
Deathmarks

Gotta blasted by 2 flyrants.

I don't want to leave a full 5 man unit in the back field to shoot a quad gun.
There is no option in the decurion to take just a one man squad, except maybe my overlord.
So i was thinking that i could take an unbound detachment and a fortification detachment and take a cheap single model unit that has good BS and an aegis line and that one guy mans the gun while everyone else is off killing.

Unbound isn't a type detachment. If you want to unbound then you don't get any detachments (except for formations specifically)

Thanks! All i needed to hear on that front. So then its's not a decurion if you take an unbound element. It's just a collection of the formations that make the decurion. Therefor you'd lose the decurion bonus.
right?

ABs are no longer the anti-air they were. They are literally the same as 2 tl bs1 autocannons against air now... which is pretty expensive for the new points.

Nightscythes do the job since they aren't snapfiring. But tbf you can just ignore opponents airpower really due to our insane durability - most air units will rarely make their points back against crons.

Naaris wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I believe unbound and battle forged can't be mixed.

What would you need from unbound?

Right now i am running -

Decurion w/lichguard
Canoptek Harvest formation
Triarch Judicator formation(what ever its called)
Deathmarks

Gotta blasted by 2 flyrants.

I don't want to leave a full 5 man unit in the back field to shoot a quad gun.
There is no option in the decurion to take just a one man squad, except maybe my overlord.
So i was thinking that i could take an unbound detachment and a fortification detachment and take a cheap single model unit that has good BS and an aegis line and that one guy mans the gun while everyone else is off killing.

Definitely ABs I've toasted double flyrants with ease with a couple of good tesla rolls. But a squad of 20 man necron warriors would do it as well (get that 4+ reroll baby justicar style)

A single model sitting at a ADL will get punked by a flyrant.

I run mech so flyrants don't really do a whole lot to me. But a nightscythe or 2 would go a long way for you. Or beefed up warrior squads.

While praetorians by RAW can't ride in a nightscythe they can still take them. Use the judicator battalions formation ability to make the nightscythes really deadly to flyrants and blast away with the stalkers, nightscythes and praetorians. Focus on one flyrant at a time to reduce the tyraind armies effectiveness. 1 dead flyrant is a bigger hurt then 2 wounded ones.

I've got my army up and running - need to paint. My opponent doesn't care. Its beer and pretzels level basement gaming. However we play somewhat competitive lists.
He'll always have 2 flyrants with 2 twinliked devourers - 12 shots. He'll also run dakkafexes...
All i have right now is basically the battleforce, tomb awakened box and a few extra boxes...
20 warriors,
10 immortals
5 lichguards
10 pretorians
1 stalker
1 spyder
3 wraiths
5 scarab bases
3 tomb blades
1 annihilation barge
and
1 unasembled ghost/doomsday ark

I lost the first game by 1 point. It lack of anti air bugged me. so I need ideas. Only way to get anni barges in game is to get another one and run the anni nexus.

Since Tesla no longer gives extra hits when Snap-Shooting, I've been using 2 Doom Scythes for my AA role. Yes, I lose the S10 Blast when firing at flyers, but I have 4 S7 shots which do cause extra hits, and I have the blast for other targets should I need it.

Obelisk?

20 Tesla shots (at different angles) and all enemy Flyer, Skimmer, Jetbike and Flying Monstrous Creature units
treat all terrain within 18" of an Obelisk as dangerous terrain.
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test
if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take dangerous
terrain tests.

Imotekh if it's a flyer-heavy list. On a 5+ they get hit by d6 S6 hits.

Pylon too.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Since Tesla no longer gives extra hits when Snap-Shooting, I've been using 2 Doom Scythes for my AA role. Yes, I lose the S10 Blast when firing at flyers, but I have 4 S7 shots which do cause extra hits, and I have the blast for other targets should I need it.

When you say you lose the deathray against flyers do you mean flying vehicles or FMC or both?

Because from what I understand the hard to hit rule for the two unit types is worded differently and the rule for FMCs suggests that units with skyfire can indeed hit swooping FMCs with templates and blasts.

Naaris wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Since Tesla no longer gives extra hits when Snap-Shooting, I've been using 2 Doom Scythes for my AA role. Yes, I lose the S10 Blast when firing at flyers, but I have 4 S7 shots which do cause extra hits, and I have the blast for other targets should I need it.

When you say you lose the deathray against flyers do you mean flying vehicles or FMC or both?

Because from what I understand the hard to hit rule for the two unit types is worded differently and the rule for FMCs suggests that units with skyfire can indeed hit swooping FMCs with templates and blasts.

Really? Please explain because that would be brilliant.

Poly Ranger wrote:

Naaris wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Since Tesla no longer gives extra hits when Snap-Shooting, I've been using 2 Doom Scythes for my AA role. Yes, I lose the S10 Blast when firing at flyers, but I have 4 S7 shots which do cause extra hits, and I have the blast for other targets should I need it.

When you say you lose the deathray against flyers do you mean flying vehicles or FMC or both?

Because from what I understand the hard to hit rule for the two unit types is worded differently and the rule for FMCs suggests that units with skyfire can indeed hit swooping FMCs with templates and blasts.

Really? Please explain because that would be brilliant.

From a discussion on - http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/ - from december 2014. So the rules are 7th ed.
Unless this was FAQ'd here is what it says

BRB:

Flyers, "Hard To Hit"
Hard to Hit Zooming Flyers are incredibly difficult targets for troops without suitably calibrated weapons and scopes. Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule). Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers.


FMCs, "Hard To Hit"
Hard to Hit A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialised weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule.

Flying Monstrous Creatures p68 (Hard to Hit p69)
Flying Vehicles p84 (To see the difference a single line makes)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And so from what I understand, that fliers and FMC's can choose to have skyfire for their attacks right?

 Ferros wrote:
Obelisk?

20 Tesla shots (at different angles) and all enemy Flyer, Skimmer, Jetbike and Flying Monstrous Creature units
treat all terrain within 18" of an Obelisk as dangerous terrain.
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Monstrous Creatures must also take a Dangerous Terrain test
if they move within 18" of an Obelisk, even though they do not normally take dangerous
terrain tests.

Imotekh if it's a flyer-heavy list. On a 5+ they get hit by d6 S6 hits.

Pylon too.

Obelisk is still snap shooting those tesla shots and due to its shape will likely only get one gun on anything at anytime. An even then likely only 3 of the 4 guns. All assuming you allow it to be played with turrets rather then having hull mounted weapons. Couple that with FMC auto passing dangerous terrain and the obelisk is just a bunch of wasted points his tyraind opponent will chop up in CC with the dakkafexes.

The Nightshroud Bomber from IA12 is number one in terms of standout units. Armour 12 all round and can both shoot at AA and bomb at the same time.

But the doombringer flight formation will slaughter air, especially as if you bring four number four will be shooting at BS10!

Naaris wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

Naaris wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Since Tesla no longer gives extra hits when Snap-Shooting, I've been using 2 Doom Scythes for my AA role. Yes, I lose the S10 Blast when firing at flyers, but I have 4 S7 shots which do cause extra hits, and I have the blast for other targets should I need it.

When you say you lose the deathray against flyers do you mean flying vehicles or FMC or both?

Because from what I understand the hard to hit rule for the two unit types is worded differently and the rule for FMCs suggests that units with skyfire can indeed hit swooping FMCs with templates and blasts.

Really? Please explain because that would be brilliant.

From a discussion on - http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/ - from december 2014. So the rules are 7th ed.
Unless this was FAQ'd here is what it says

BRB:

Flyers, "Hard To Hit"
Hard to Hit Zooming Flyers are incredibly difficult targets for troops without suitably calibrated weapons and scopes. Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule). Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers.


FMCs, "Hard To Hit"
Hard to Hit A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialised weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule.

Flying Monstrous Creatures p68 (Hard to Hit p69)
Flying Vehicles p84 (To see the difference a single line makes)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And so from what I understand, that fliers and FMC's can choose to have skyfire for their attacks right?

Sounds legit. I'm surprised not to have heard of it before.

When Flyrants can be hit with the new D Templates that Wraithguard gave it's understandable how you'd want to keep it on the down low

Doomscythes and Nightscythes are probably the best AA in the Codex. But you're so durable you can avoid to skip it and play to missions.

Naaris wrote:
Are Doom scythes worth purchasing? I understand that RAW rules state that templates can hit FMCs while swooping but they cannot be used on fliers. What's the consensus on this?
If they suck, whats the alternative for AA support?

Night Scythes. Only a few more points than an AB, doesn't require an FOC slot, and doesn't require that you take a Doomsday Ark if you run Decurion.