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Ion Shields have to pick a specific facing to grant a save, such as left side or right side.

Barrage weapons hit side armour. Not a particular side, just side.

Do Ion Shields get any kind of save against Barrage weapons?

Discussed many times before. Some argue side armour encompasses left or right facing, so a hit on 'side' is a hit on a shielded side do you get a save. Others don't.

HIWPI to determine the facing struck would be to consider the attack as coming from the center of the marker, as you do for the purposes of determining cover saves and wound allocation.

The easiest method is to discuss it with your opponent before the game begins and if you cannot agree within 5 mins to use the most important rule.

this way the game hasn't started and you will both know the score before setup so there is no misconception

HIWPI is that the attack comes from the center of the blast marker and uses the side armor value for penetration. This means if the knight has a shield on the front and the blast scatters to the front arc of the Knight, I would roll against AV12 and he would have an invul save.

RAW is actually clear, people mis understand the difference between *where the shot comes from* which matters for the ion sheild, and what armour value the hit is resolved against.

what armour value the hit is resolved on has no effect on where the shot comes from, being resolved against side armour, does not mean the shot came from that facing at all for barrage.

According to RAW the shot from barrage *always* comes from the center of the hole, which could make it left, right, front or back arc depending on where the center of the blast is.

if that ARC is where the shield was put, you get a save, if not, you do not.

any competent use of barrage will place it on the side you didnt put the shield on, and there is no factual RAW based argument to say that resolving hits on side armour counts as hits originating from one side or the other.

HIWIPI is just as RAW is,

center of the hole in the same arc the Ion sheild is on? gets a save

center of the blast hole in an arc other then the one with the sheild = no save

RAW isn't really that straightforward. Emphasis mine...

Ion Shield states:

"The Knight has a 4+ invulnerable save against all hits on that facing..."

While Barrage states:

"Hits against vehicles are always resolved against their side armour."

But yes, it seems clear to me that RAI is probably best resolved as from the center of the marker.

you are reading the rules wrong, hits being resolved against the side armour, does not mean the hits always originate from a side facing, as I explained in my post its a common mis reading to equate the two as you have done Mr. Shine

the Ion sheild protects against "hits on that facing"

not "hits on the side Armour value"

a shot has a facing it comes from, 100% independent of the armour value its resolved against in the case of barrage

I happen to disagree with easysauce's reasoning. The barrage attack always originates from the attacker. Measuring from the center only changes how cover and LoS are determined. Vehicles using Side AV versus Barrage represents top armor value from the point of view of a plunging shot, which is what Barrage technically is. As such, the Ion Shield works if the attack originates from that arc, regardless of which facing the blast eventually covers. Side AV is used because RAW says to use Side AV. If the Knight could count as having cover, per RAW cover would be determined from the center of the blast.

Just because we are use to ignoring where the shot originates from with most Barrage attacks, does not mean we actually ignore where the shot originates from. Occasionally, a rule will reference the direction the attack came from, to which we treat the Barrage attack as a range attack with specific modifications, and only apply those modifications as specified per RAW.

SJ

Barrage states that you determine wound allocation and cover save allowance from the center of the blast. This does not affect Ion Shields or vehicle penetration, as they are neither cover saves nor wounds.

For what it's worth, the ETC FAQ states to roll a die to see which side is hit by a Barrage weapon to determine if you get an ion shield save or not, implying that the final placement of the blast marker is irrelevant. Not an official faq etc., but it's used in a lot of places.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I happen to disagree with easysauce's reasoning. The barrage attack always originates from the attacker. Measuring from the center only changes how cover and LoS are determined. Vehicles using Side AV versus Barrage represents top armor value from the point of view of a plunging shot, which is what Barrage technically is. As such, the Ion Shield works if the attack originates from that arc, regardless of which facing the blast eventually covers. Side AV is used because RAW says to use Side AV. If the Knight could count as having cover, per RAW cover would be determined from the center of the blast.

Just because we are use to ignoring where the shot originates from with most Barrage attacks, does not mean we actually ignore where the shot originates from. Occasionally, a rule will reference the direction the attack came from, to which we treat the Barrage attack as a range attack with specific modifications, and only apply those modifications as specified per RAW.

SJ

except the BRB states the attack does not originate from the attacker, because this is specifically written in the rules for barrage weapons where the BRB states it originates from the center of the blast. so your argument is flawed in that the rules contradict it.,

if a wall is on the right side of a model, and the blast is also on the right side, it gets cover,

same with the ion sheild, if its on the right side, and the blast is also on the right side, it gets the save.

if not, it doesnt.

determining if you are in the Ion sheilds works the same as determining if the facing is in cover

"To determine whether a unit wounded by a Barrage weapon is allowed a cover save, and when determining Wound allocation, always assume the shot is coming from the centre of the blast marker, instead of from the firing model. Hits against vehicles are always resolved against their side armour.”

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (eBook Edition).” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

I marked and highlighted the passage you are ignoring.

SJ