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Bharring wrote:


Let's assume you let Guardians waltz up to Chaos Marines, while they twiddle their thumbs:
13 Guardians vs 9 CSM (same points)
Guardians (13)(2)(5/27) CSM (counting rends). 4.8 CSM die. 62.4 points worth, or a little better than half their cost.
If CSM instead shot first?
CSM kill (9)(2)(2/3)(2/3)(1) Guardians. 8 Guardians die. 76pts. Substantially better.

So, in the only scenario Guardians can do damage, assuming they are left alone to cross half the field, they do less to CSM than CSM would do to them.

Even with Battle Focus, there is no excuse for a 12" gun to get first salvo

I used defender guardians all through the last dex. They are basically unchanged, so this still stands. You don't use them like this: you take 3 squads in 3 wave serpents and you "pump n dump" you drop 60 str 4 rending shots at BS4 into any infantry you like, usually they are in cover so their cover becomes yours, you utterly anhilate the target so there is no return fire. The wave serpents block the LOS and always absorb any return fire because they engage (the all but inevitable) secondary threats, those secondary threats are fairly mauled too and then they universally shoot back. Then you saddle up and go elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Okapi wrote:
What do you think of the missile launcher in the new codex? Sure, it's the most expensive choice, and it's less effective anti-tank than the bright lance and worse anti-infantry than the scatter laser, but it outranges them, and has skyfire as well. With the loss of laser lock I'm considering them on pretty much everything, especially since I don't have any aircraft of my own. Even Vypers might be decent if the can stay 48" away and snipe at things.

This is emerging as the current meta.. EML.. across the board.. the guardians who get free weapons platforms and wave serps will all carry them now