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So, in the Space Marines codex, the honor guard have the ability to switch out their boltguns for a close combat weapon. That said, they're already armed with boltpistols.

I don't get it. What purpose would that serve? Doesn't a bolt pistol already serve as an extra close combat weapon for +1 attack purposes?

Also, if I keep the standard set up (boltgun, power weapon and bolt pistol), would they get +1 attack on their power weapons because of dual wielding?

Yea you get +1 for the bolt pistol and power weapon.
The only reason I can see why you would want a ccw is so that can still hit at initiative if you take a power axe. Or still get multiple attacks with a relic blade.
Assuming your not using the axe/blade ofc.

Although you could make the RAW argument that using the pistol instead of blade would still confer +1 attack since the blade is a melee weapon and your not attacking with it but that would be kinda silly.

Traditio wrote:
So, in the Space Marines codex, the honor guard have the ability to switch out their boltguns for a close combat weapon. That said, they're already armed with boltpistols.

I don't get it. What purpose would that serve? Doesn't a bolt pistol already serve as an extra close combat weapon for +1 attack purposes?

Also, if I keep the standard set up (boltgun, power weapon and bolt pistol), would they get +1 attack on their power weapons because of dual wielding?

Baically all space marines come with a bolt pistol. This is their close combat weapon. So they have 1 attack basic. If you switch out the boltguns for close combat weapon it gives them 2 attacks total, because having 2 close combat weapons confers +1 Attack.

Nevermind that the models have knives, they don't count for the rules. Yes, as silly as it seems, humanities finest don't even come equipped with a knife. Though in all honesty it's a balancing issue: If tactical marines had 2 attacks, there's be little point in taking assault squads.

I think you'll find that power swords make for pretty big ass knives

 thegreatchimp wrote:

Traditio wrote:
So, in the Space Marines codex, the honor guard have the ability to switch out their boltguns for a close combat weapon. That said, they're already armed with boltpistols.

I don't get it. What purpose would that serve? Doesn't a bolt pistol already serve as an extra close combat weapon for +1 attack purposes?

Also, if I keep the standard set up (boltgun, power weapon and bolt pistol), would they get +1 attack on their power weapons because of dual wielding?

Baically all space marines come with a bolt pistol. This is their close combat weapon. So they have 1 attack basic. If you switch out the boltguns for close combat weapon it gives them 2 attacks total, because having 2 close combat weapons confers +1 Attack.

Nevermind that the models have knives, they don't count for the rules. Yes, as silly as it seems, humanities finest don't even come equipped with a knife. Though in all honesty it's a balancing issue: If tactical marines had 2 attacks, there's be little point in taking assault squads.

Wow post a question get 2 wrong answers. For honourguard there is no advantage to ever swapping for a CCW, you lose the option to fire a bolt pistol before charging. That is the ONLY change. It has no impact on order you strike in (if you have and axe you can still choose to swing with the pistol as a standard CCW if you want) and there is no way to get an extra attack with the Relic Blade.

If the powerweapon doesn't say it's 2 handed or unwieldy then yes combined with the pistol it's an extra atk in the assualt phase. If you fired with that bolter gun (since it's neither an assault weapon nor a pistol) during the shooting phase you won't be able to charge into assault. If you choose to fire with the pistol instead you would be able to charge and get the extra atk in assault phase as well. I'm not sure how it would go if you fired a two handed assault weapon in shooting and then charged in with two melee weapons. In the Ork codex is carefully worded to replace the slugga with one of their many assault options.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:

Traditio wrote:
So, in the Space Marines codex, the honor guard have the ability to switch out their boltguns for a close combat weapon. That said, they're already armed with boltpistols.

I don't get it. What purpose would that serve? Doesn't a bolt pistol already serve as an extra close combat weapon for +1 attack purposes?

Also, if I keep the standard set up (boltgun, power weapon and bolt pistol), would they get +1 attack on their power weapons because of dual wielding?

Baically all space marines come with a bolt pistol. This is their close combat weapon. So they have 1 attack basic. If you switch out the boltguns for close combat weapon it gives them 2 attacks total, because having 2 close combat weapons confers +1 Attack.

Nevermind that the models have knives, they don't count for the rules. Yes, as silly as it seems, humanities finest don't even come equipped with a knife. Though in all honesty it's a balancing issue: If tactical marines had 2 attacks, there's be little point in taking assault squads.

Wow post a question get 2 wrong answers. For honourguard there is no advantage to ever swapping for a CCW, you lose the option to fire a bolt pistol before charging. That is the ONLY change. It has no impact on order you strike in (if you have and axe you can still choose to swing with the pistol as a standard CCW if you want) and there is no way to get an extra attack with the Relic Blade.

You replace the boltGUN not the pistol. That means you have 3 melee weapons.
I forgot about the pistol, so you're right there, but the blade shouldn't confer an extra attack if you use the pistol instead of the blade, in which case you would get still get the extra attack if you add the ccw. Although RAW you would get the +1 attack for attacking with the pistol instead of the blade anyway. Twohanded only says you don't get the +1 when you attack with that weapon. Of course that could also mean attacking in general, in which case the ccw is really competely pointless.

Unless it's a dread there's no going higher then +1 atk for having more melee weapons. The most you can hope for is +1 atk for the charge and +1 atk for having more then one 1-handed melee weapon that isn't unwieldy (although two indentical 1-handed unwieldy weapon with specialist rule allows that extra atk again). So if you satisfy the charge bonus and multiple melee weapons that aren't unwieldy and specialized that will be 3 atks for a space marine in assault or for a slugga boy that would be 4 atks.

Please note that I'm not taking other special outside things into account like psyker powers, banner powers, indep powers being added to the unit etc.....

I wasn't try to say that you get more attacks for having 3 ccw.
Just that I doubt anybody will complain if you bring a relic blade, and when you decide not to use it, you would gain+1 attack for the bolt pistol and ccw.

Depending on how you read the twohanded rule, you'd either never get the +1, or you would get the +1 for having a pistol and another melee weapon (when using the pistol, since the relic blade is a melee weapon).

But if you add the ccw I doubt any opponent would deny you the +1 attack for not using the blade even when you say you never get the +1 because you have a two handed weapon

 ProwlerPC wrote:
If the powerweapon doesn't say it's 2 handed or unwieldy then yes combined with the pistol it's an extra atk in the assualt phase. If you fired with that bolter gun (since it's neither an assault weapon nor a pistol) during the shooting phase you won't be able to charge into assault. If you choose to fire with the pistol instead you would be able to charge and get the extra atk in assault phase as well. I'm not sure how it would go if you fired a two handed assault weapon in shooting and then charged in with two melee weapons. In the Ork codex is carefully worded to replace the slugga with one of their many assault options.

Sorry this confused me. If you fire a boltGUN you cant charge into assault? I thought it was only if you rapid fire it you cant charge into assault?

Sorry this confused me. If you fire a boltGUN you cant charge into assault? I thought it was only if you rapid fire it you cant charge into assault?

A boltgun is a rapidfire weapon so you can't charge if you fire it. Rapidfire is not an action just a weapon type. Rapidfire weapons always fire 1 shot at over half range and 2 shots if within half range.

I wondered this myself last year or so and the conclusion at the time seemed to be the only possible reason to include the option to swap the company champion's weapon for a ccw is that the miniature is modeled that way. It makes no difference whatsoever (other than meaning you can't fire a pistol.)

Why does everybody insist you cant fire the pistol?
You replace the bolt gun, so you still have the pistol to shoot on the turn you charge.

Only the chapter champion has the option, and it can have benefits is some very obscure corner cases.

If you also upgrade to the thunderhammer, you would have both a BP and a CCW. So if you desperately wanted to strike at initiative, you could choose to use them and get an extra attack. These would be at basic S without AP, but you’d get them. If you are just mulching grots or guardsmen, this might actually be viable.

If you are fighting someone who can disarm you (such as Jain Zar in the eldar codex, possibly others) you have a spare weapon for the extra attack. Odds are your power weapon is going to the the one disarmed, but at least you still get more basic attacks.

If you play strict WYSWYG, the guy in the HG box is geared like this. Which is why the option is included. It’s otherwise a trap choice. You give up the ability to shoot meaningfully for a backup basic attack that you will probably never need.