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Is the sum of all our fears justified?

Yay, a new Eldar thread. We really needed one.

The answer of course is no, because everyone is either still bitching about it online, or outright refusing games against Eldar players like they said they would in order to make a statement that GW is going to completely ignore.

I tried it out the other night. 2000 points vs Sisters/White Scars.

My list was Guardian Battlehost, Avatar, Seer Council (with Eldrad), Fire Prism Squadron, Night Spinner, Hemlock Wraithfighter, and some Rangers. Only D-weapon was on the Hemlock and naturally, the Sisters passed their 6+ Invulnerable the one time it dealt damage.

There are a lot of nice things in this codex, especially with making the Aspects much more specialized. The only reason to be afraid is if you are playing in the tournament scene. If you are playing friendly pick-up games, most people won't go overboard.

As it was end result Win for the Imperium. They had 3 objectives, and was contesting 2 more. They also had linebreaker and first blood.

I played two games with my Eldar earlier, and from what I saw, as long as the broken stuff isn't spammed, they're nothing much to fear, but like all new codex' require you to get used to playing them. Just as an example, while playing against DE, the main thing catching him out was that, as I was using the Craftworld Warhost, I was running 6" without rolling. Eldritch Storm looks like it could be powerful if used in the right situation, but unfortunately I haven't been able to use it myself, and when one of the guys I was playing used it against my Eldar it didn't seem that amazing. Admittedly I use a very guardian heavy list, taking the guardian Battlehost containing around 60 guardians, a few Wraithlords, and a minimum dire avengers shrine, so my observations aren't necessarily the best, but they seem very fluffy now, and are still fairly powerful, but not necessarily as bad as everyone seems to be making out, again assuming the broken units aren't spammed

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yay, a new Eldar thread. We really needed one.

The answer of course is no, because everyone is either still bitching about it online, or outright refusing games against Eldar players like they said they would in order to make a statement that GW is going to completely ignore.

Well its been a weekend and codex has been out for two days. Surely somebody on Dakka has played a game with the army. I saw some eldar being used at my games club today. Didn't get a chance to ask them how the games were going.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
I tried it out the other night. 2000 points vs Sisters/White Scars.

My list was Guardian Battlehost, Avatar, Seer Council (with Eldrad), Fire Prism Squadron, Night Spinner, Hemlock Wraithfighter, and some Rangers. Only D-weapon was on the Hemlock and naturally, the Sisters passed their 6+ Invulnerable the one time it dealt damage.

There are a lot of nice things in this codex, especially with making the Aspects much more specialized. The only reason to be afraid is if you are playing in the tournament scene. If you are playing friendly pick-up games, most people won't go overboard.

As it was end result Win for the Imperium. They had 3 objectives, and was contesting 2 more. They also had linebreaker and first blood.

I thought D weapons ignore invulnerable saves?

Watched a game one table over from me.

Summary: two wraithknights exploded a tank a turn and never died while biker guardians removed 60-ish guardsmen a turn. Victory by tabling turn 2, Eldar player also achieved all maelstrom objectives including Domination.

Yeah, trouble is, I am doubtful the eldar players at our club understand the meaning of restraint. If you have to keep reminding people that your casual, story based campaign, is NOT a competitive tournament then you have the wrong mindset with those players.

See the battle reports forum. I posted one last night vs a CSM Iron Warriors list. The WK stomped house. And it was a pretty restrained Eldar list.

I did. Didn't see much difference then how it was before. The shoting was more or less the same, maybe a bit better. there were no 3 WK. only 1 WK and a knight. The list seemed to be slower, but I think it is due to how bikes went up from 6 to 24 in my opponents army.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I thought D weapons ignore invulnerable saves?

On rolling a 6 to wound only.

 Happyjew wrote:
I tried it out the other night. 2000 points vs Sisters/White Scars.

My list was Guardian Battlehost, Avatar, Seer Council (with Eldrad), Fire Prism Squadron, Night Spinner, Hemlock Wraithfighter, and some Rangers. Only D-weapon was on the Hemlock and naturally, the Sisters passed their 6+ Invulnerable the one time it dealt damage.

There are a lot of nice things in this codex, especially with making the Aspects much more specialized. The only reason to be afraid is if you are playing in the tournament scene. If you are playing friendly pick-up games, most people won't go overboard.

As it was end result Win for the Imperium. They had 3 objectives, and was contesting 2 more. They also had linebreaker and first blood.

So as long as the eldar player spends 75% of their points on sub par units and doesn't take the 1 model that's been in every eldar list since it was released, they're perfectly balanced. I'm shocked...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To elaborate so people don't accuse me of hyperbole
1. Basically everything in the Guardian host is mediocre or terrible
2. Eldrad is a waste of points when you can take 2 farseers for 5 points more
3. Avatar is and always has been terrible
4. Fire prism and night spinner are outclassed by the hornet in every way possible for the points
5. Crimson hunter is far better than hemlock for 45 points less, if you want D weapons you're taking wraith units
6. Rangers...enough said

What if codex Eldar was like

an April fools joke

Then they printed it anyway

 Rismonite wrote:
What if codex Eldar was like

an April fools joke

Then they printed it anyway

"Haha, guys, check out Dakka! They totally think the codex is for real!"
"... I sent it to print, Dave. It's sold 350.000 copies already."

Several games were played at my FLGS this past weekend and overall the Eldar are strong but not nearly as OP as everyone is making them out to be. Some highlights:

-The Aspect Warrior formation where you can take x3 kinds of aspects and add 1to either their BS or WS is insanely strong. Watching spiders with BS5 was pretty intimidating and have to say spamming multiples of the aspect warrior formation is probably one of the scariest lists the Eldar can do.

-Wraithknight with D cannons was unsurprisingly not as scary as advertised, watched a Lord of Skulls rip it apart in close combat as it only got to shoot for one turn before it was tied up by a Daemon Prince (from the Khorne Demonkin book). Yes it is powerful against vehicles when its able to shoot but quickly getting chaff units or running an MSU style of Army will negate its effectiveness.

-Skyrays are also an amazing counter to Wraithknights. Was a game where x3 of them took on x2 Knights and in the first turn of shooting the Skyrays brought down 1 Wraithknight and the second Knight had 3-4 wounds left on it (can't remember exactly). Even though they had used up all their Seeker Missiles they were still very useful over the course of the game providing Marker Light support and Smart Missile Systems against all of the Jetbikes the Eldar player had.

 Toofast wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I tried it out the other night. 2000 points vs Sisters/White Scars.

My list was Guardian Battlehost, Avatar, Seer Council (with Eldrad), Fire Prism Squadron, Night Spinner, Hemlock Wraithfighter, and some Rangers. Only D-weapon was on the Hemlock and naturally, the Sisters passed their 6+ Invulnerable the one time it dealt damage.

There are a lot of nice things in this codex, especially with making the Aspects much more specialized. The only reason to be afraid is if you are playing in the tournament scene. If you are playing friendly pick-up games, most people won't go overboard.

As it was end result Win for the Imperium. They had 3 objectives, and was contesting 2 more. They also had linebreaker and first blood.

So as long as the eldar player spends 75% of their points on sub par units and doesn't take the 1 model that's been in every eldar list since it was released, they're perfectly balanced. I'm shocked...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To elaborate so people don't accuse me of hyperbole
1. Basically everything in the Guardian host is mediocre or terrible
2. Eldrad is a waste of points when you can take 2 farseers for 5 points more
3. Avatar is and always has been terrible
4. Fire prism and night spinner are outclassed by the hornet in every way possible for the points
5. Crimson hunter is far better than hemlock for 45 points less, if you want D weapons you're taking wraith units
6. Rangers...enough said

First I wanted to try out the new Eldar Detachment. As such.
1. I don't have enough bikes to run the Windrider host (whatever it's called).
2. Seer Council comes with 2 Farseers, one of which may be Eldrad. I was running an Ulthwe themed army so I took Eldrad as part of the Seer Council.
3. The Avatar can be good if used correctly. Since Eldrad gives Scout to 3 units now, I could scout or outflank him to get him closer to the tanks I needed dead. It just so happened, my opponent got really lucky with his Shield of Faith rolls.
4. My group has decided to Forgeworld. Additionally, There is no way to take hornets in the Warhost.
5. I agree that the Crimson Hunter is better, however to include a Hunter in a Warhost you need 3. I only have 1 at the moment.
6. It was 60 points. They made up their points.

Second what model has been a part of every Eldar list since it was released? I know of a few models that I've never run.

Played against them with my Orks and lost horribly... And he wasnt even spamming a lot of D weapons and Scatter lasers... He refuses to spam those because his wins wont be seen as wins by skill but rather a win granted by a broken codex..

Our Eldar player also played against Nids,.. and won big time...

Thus far nothing changed that much... Eldar still has it easy

Played a game this past Saturday. I used my Necrons, and took a beating the first few turns, but ended up tabling him by the end of it, only losing maybe 5 or so of my units. He was using a couple Aspect Shrines (2x Dire Avengers with Serpents, Warp Spyders, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Striking Scorpions, Fire Dragons with a serpent), a Wraithknight with Wraithcannons, 2 3-man squads of jetbikes all with Shurikan Cannons, and an Autarch with the Swooping Hawks. I was using Reclamation Legion with Lychguard backing up my Overlord, Destroyer Cult, and Canoptek Harvest.

My friend also played two other games that day. One against Khorne Daemonkin, and annihilated them. The next was against my Space Marine friend. Close as hell game, but the game ended with my Space Marine player the victor. All he had left was a squad of Tac marines, 1 more marine locked in combat, and 2 Rhinos. Eldar friend had a Wraithknight with 2 wounds left, and single Striking scorpion locked in CC with the Tac marine. It was a bloody game.

I have played a game with my Eldar with the new codex. I can't speak to the sum of all fears beyond it being a pretty forgettable movie, but I can give my impressions of the game.

Melee wraithknight is incredible. Not because of d weapons, though those are nice (wraith knight was already going to kill basically anything it charged), but because of stomp. I used to have to worry about getting tied up by infantry blobs. Now, unless that blob is fearless and has more than 20 models in it, I am not particularly concerned.

Jetbikes produce a lot of firepower, but die with distressing ease.

Aspect warriors are incredible, but make one misplay with them and your army evaporates.

Hemlock wraithfighters are utter and complete bs. Mine spent most of the game under the effects of invisibility, and it mulched a tank every turn starting the turn it came in while remaining basically immune to enemy AA.

the_scotsman wrote:
Watched a game one table over from me.

Summary: two wraithknights exploded a tank a turn and never died while biker guardians removed 60-ish guardsmen a turn. Victory by tabling turn 2, Eldar player also achieved all maelstrom objectives including Domination.

Glorious

More thoughts on games played:

The Eldar Warhost is very powerful. If you want to play as the Eldar Warhost, you will get some very nice benefits. But it is also incredibly clunky and can be very difficult to use as the basis for the list you actually want to play. It is far easier to just build a CAD and then maybe grab a formation or two.

The wraithfighter is bs. I said that already, right? Well, it's worth restating. COMPLETE AND UTTER BS.

The changes to Warp Spiders are really fun. Watching them blink across the board is great. I was able to deny rapid fire once and to deny shots entirely twice, after which my opponent stopped trying to shoot them except at point blank range.

 Marsyas wrote:

The wraithfighter is bs. I said that already, right? Well, it's worth restating. COMPLETE AND UTTER BS.

Uh, just to clarify - do you mean that they are apocalyptically good or demostrably s#|+e?
In my book taking out a vehicle per turn for no incoming fire is good.

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Marsyas wrote:

The wraithfighter is bs. I said that already, right? Well, it's worth restating. COMPLETE AND UTTER BS.

Uh, just to clarify - do you mean that they are apocalyptically good or demostrably s#|+e?
In my book taking out a vehicle per turn for no incoming fire is good.

The former. See his previous post.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Marsyas wrote:

The wraithfighter is bs. I said that already, right? Well, it's worth restating. COMPLETE AND UTTER BS.

Uh, just to clarify - do you mean that they are apocalyptically good or demostrably s#|+e?
In my book taking out a vehicle per turn for no incoming fire is good.

The former. See his previous post.

Marsyas' BS means 'Brilliantly Strong'

Excuse my 7th Ed ignorance. I have the rules on my ipad, but its a PITA to flick around that (I'll get a mini rulebook next pay day).

Anyway, do these formations take place of the FoC?

I ran up a 1500pt list yesterday, all Aspects led by Karandras. I have the minimum HQ/Troops/Troops filled and completed the other slots with appropriate Aspect units and a Wraithlord.

Is this not a 'legal' army? I like the idea of unbound for sh*ts and giggles but would like to think I can get a pickup game at the my FLGS with my Karandras Aspect army.

Cheers.

I've played against them with Nids twice, beat them both times. Close games though.

Turns out those fancy Crimson death jink saves aren't so useful against massed vector strikes and marine toughness things still die to Flyrants with great ease. I've not yet played against the new Wraith stuff. Looking forward to doing that in the next week or so.

Monders,
The CAD is still legit.

All-the-Aspects armies has only two issues with CAD
-Need 2+ Dire Avengers squads. You want them anyways, but you can't just do 1 unit of them in the CAD, being the only Troop aspect
-Too many FA for a single CAD. Spiders, Hawks, Shining Spears, Shadow Spectres, and Crimson Hunters are all FA. Either pick the ones you want, or you need 2 CADs. Or a CAD and an Aspect Shrine.

I do a pure Aspect list quite frequently. Basically, one box of each aspect, with a different-weapon Exarch in each squad. I use 2x10man or 1x10 2x5 DAs for troops and Asurmen for HQ. Add a transport for the fire Dragons, and its 1500.

(I used one Serpent in 6th, but the new dex will give me the points to swap that out for a Falcon!)

(Another sweet thing about Aspects lead by a PL is that they're all around the same cost, so swapping PLs is easy)

Thanks Bharring, that's settled my mind a bit.

I have a lot of the old 2nd/3rd ed metals, all Aspects and PLs, so I should be in a good position to cherry pick.

As it stands, I have 2 x 10 DAs, Spiders in my FA and Scorpions (10) and Dragons (10... too much?!) in Elites. HS is five DRs and a Wraithlord. No exarchs as yet... Will review ASAP.

I think I have a Falcon knocking around too. Nice!

Thanks again. Looking forward to getting the books busted open when I get home!

 SirDonlad wrote:


Uh, just to clarify - do you mean that they are apocalyptically good or demostrably s#|+e?
In my book taking out a vehicle per turn for no incoming fire is good.

Apocalyptically good. So good that it reaches the level of completely absurd.

Monders - we could continue this conversation in another thread, but I don't want to further hijack this thread. I do that far too often as is!

(For most Aspects, 5-6 gets the job done. Usually, if a 10-man can do it, so can a 5-6 man. Also, usually, if it kills a 5-6 man it'll kill a 10-man. Finally, don't duplicate non-DA aspects if possible. Makes it a lot less fun for your opponent.)

Bharring wrote:
Monders - we could continue this conversation in another thread, but I don't want to further hijack this thread. I do that far too often as is!

(For most Aspects, 5-6 gets the job done. Usually, if a 10-man can do it, so can a 5-6 man. Also, usually, if it kills a 5-6 man it'll kill a 10-man. Finally, don't duplicate non-DA aspects if possible. Makes it a lot less fun for your opponent.)

You will face my all Warp Spider Harlequin painted dancing force and you will like it!

To echo, in some ways, what Bharring said, many aspects don't need a max size squad. Especially considering how cheap the exarchs are, and how amazing they are. You want as many as possible. This is the opposite of marine squads, who need the max size squads to get the most bang for their buck when it comes to special weapons.

This isn't ALWAYS true. For CC aspects I usually take a max sized unit. I don't know if you need to for scorpions or banshees now (They are amazing now at avoiding incoming fire until they reach combat) but you might want to depending on your meta.
DA, as well, benefit from max size squads since they take a lot of firepower to be effective.
Dragons, Reapers, Spiders really want those exarchs and don't need max squads. Take two smaller ones if you can instead, it allows you to select different targets.