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I am still not convinced that Banshees are any good. They keep getting buffed, yes, but the central problem that makes them awful is never addressed - the fact that they are S3. Banshees are a S3 anti-MEQ unit. You can give them all the tangential abilities you want, but until that is addressed, they will never be good at what they do. And if you have to build your entire army around making one unit playable, that is a bad unit.

Or run the avatar near them for fearless rageing furious charge buffs and hes fast eniugh to keep up and hes no slouch in combat either.

On the avatar hes been over shadowed by the knight but on his own hes actually very dangerous he gets 7 s9 ap1 armourbane attacks on the charge at a higher init than a thirster plus a meltagun to boot. All for under 200pts.

The problem with the Avatar is that the Wraithknight exists. So if I want Banshees to be reasonably effective at the entire reason they exist, I have to forgo the wraithknight. And the wraithknight is so insanely undercosted... Er, "points efficient", that the Avatar seems like a joke in comparison.

Bharring wrote:Monders - we could continue this conversation in another thread, but I don't want to further hijack this thread. I do that far too often as is!

(For most Aspects, 5-6 gets the job done. Usually, if a 10-man can do it, so can a 5-6 man. Also, usually, if it kills a 5-6 man it'll kill a 10-man. Finally, don't duplicate non-DA aspects if possible. Makes it a lot less fun for your opponent.)

Indeed - apologies OP - I'll leave it OT after this. But bear in mind, this will hopefully help newer players not be cheesy cheese holes.

In my eagerness to be fluffy and fun, I very nearly went spam! Thanks for the guidance.

Akiasura wrote:

You will face my all Warp Spider Harlequin painted dancing force and you will like it!

To echo, in some ways, what Bharring said, many aspects don't need a max size squad. Especially considering how cheap the exarchs are, and how amazing they are. You want as many as possible. This is the opposite of marine squads, who need the max size squads to get the most bang for their buck when it comes to special weapons.

This isn't ALWAYS true. For CC aspects I usually take a max sized unit. I don't know if you need to for scorpions or banshees now (They are amazing now at avoiding incoming fire until they reach combat) but you might want to depending on your meta.
DA, as well, benefit from max size squads since they take a lot of firepower to be effective.
Dragons, Reapers, Spiders really want those exarchs and don't need max squads. Take two smaller ones if you can instead, it allows you to select different targets.

I was going full size because I have the models, rather than thinking about it and going for nuance.

Again, thanks for the input and tips. I really have learnt a lot in a few short posts!

 Marsyas wrote:
The problem with the Avatar is that the Wraithknight exists. So if I want Banshees to be reasonably effective at the entire reason they exist, I have to forgo the wraithknight. And the wraithknight is so insanely undercosted... Er, "points efficient", that the Avatar seems like a joke in comparison.

true but i dont have a wraith knight and people wont bitch about the avatar or refuse games which for me and my limited game times is all good.

Additionally, the Avatar is awesomeness incarnate.

The WK is a kinda- dumb model where the only thing more derp-tastic than its rules is the terrible fluff behind it.

Easy choice!

I'm going to get a game in against them against someone from my old club, either this weekend or in the summer where they will have acquired more models.

Shall hopefully be playing Orks. I'll show 'em what a real bike looks like!

In regards to Banshees, this has been a bit of confusion.

Its been said to me that you can't pre-load Banshees into a Dark Eldar transport but have to do it on the table since its from another codex.

But then I was recently told If you get a transport as a dedicated one (which one should do for every troop so that you can objective secured fast skimmers) you cannot give it to banshees (or any other unit other than the troop it was bought for) before turn 1.

But you can get both Venoms and Raiders as a Fast Attack choice. If they take a slot in the detachment, they are not Dedicated Transports anymore and you can give it to the Banshees before deployment.


So is this true that you can give the Banshees a Venom or Raider to ride in as long as it was bought as a fast attack choice and then deep strike with it?

Exactly, Zak. The restriction is for Dedicated Transports, and has nothing to do with what codex it came from.

So has anyone tried kill teams with the jet bikes. Seems like they'd be about unbeatable...

niv-mizzet wrote:
So has anyone tried kill teams with the jet bikes. Seems like they'd be about unbeatable...

Kill teams on a properly built LOS blockapaloza map with various hides and nooks?

Id expect them to be strong but i can see some lists doing decently. even possibly LotD ignore cover on missle launcher.

the_scotsman wrote:
Watched a game one table over from me.

Summary: two wraithknights exploded a tank a turn and never died while biker guardians removed 60-ish guardsmen a turn. Victory by tabling turn 2, Eldar player also achieved all maelstrom objectives including Domination.

DISGUSTING!

I happily would in a pick up and play scenario, as I mostly stay away from Tournaments it's not that bad a thing to go up against when it's a friendly game, however most people who play Eldar at my local store tend to see all games as competitive, and not just them don't get me wrong,(I'm included here) there are plenty, and for someone as myself who is looking for a friendly game most days it's hard to say yes to those people who have super competitive lists.

I personally feel that I don't want to turn down a game against a nice player who has an Eldar army, but the way my meta works currently and given the regular people who attend, it's looking to be hard to accept the new book :(

Just played 1750pts against Eldar with:
+ Windhost (about 20 or so bikes)
+ Wraithhost (1 Wave)

Using IG:
Tank Commander - 2 x Battle Tank
IG Platoon with 2 x AC & Priest & Conscripts (45 men)
IG Platoon with 2 x AC & Priest & Conscripts (45 men)
Enginseer w/Servitors
Basilisk x 2
Wyvern x 2
Stormsword LoW (10" Blast, Ignores Cover)

First turn WK damaged the SS, and Bikes killed a whole bunch of Infantry but lots more survived due to being in Cover. Then BTs, ACs, Basilisk and SS wounded the WK. Wyverns killed a couple of Bikes.

Second turn repeat but WK died. Enginseer repaired the SS. Wraithguard finished off a Platoon. 1 Bike Squad broken from Tanks and Artillery. 1 BT dead.

Third turn, Wraiths stuck in CC with other Platoon. 2 other Bikes Squads Jinked and ineffective.

Game ended soon after.

Lessons learned; stay in Cover; even with Rending Bikes don't kill AV14 well; screen vehicles from Wraiths with Infantry; it's hard to hide a Wraithknight; bikes that fail morale run really far

Was he new? bikes don't have rending, been that way for what? 2 editions? 3 if we include this one.

 Quickjager wrote:
Was he new? bikes don't have rending, been that way for what? 2 editions? 3 if we include this one.

Meant Bladestorm pseudo-Rending, can't touch AV14 unless side. Sorry for my short-form.

Was messing around on Vassal last night, mostly just playing around with the aspect warriors. My main takeaway is just how dramatic the warhost 6" run is - infantry can just haul ass around the board.

 KiloFiX wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Was he new? bikes don't have rending, been that way for what? 2 editions? 3 if we include this one.

Meant Bladestorm pseudo-Rending, can't touch AV14 unless side. Sorry for my short-form.

Bladestorm has no modifiers vs vehicles. Check the rule.

Besides the plus one on the damage chart(ap2) if a six is rolled in the event of a pen.

The AP2 is when wounding, so can't happen on a Pen result.

I keep hearing that Farseer's are really good now...

even though barely nothing changed about them.

So what is making them "SO GOOD!"? The Eldritch Storm buff? The new power seem's pretty situation as heck. Doom got nerfed. Still has the lame executioner power that I will roll at least twice.

I think they are still good, as they were last dex, but I don't see anything that gives them a spotlight relative to the old dex.

Is the new Storm power just THAT good?


also @ the guy saying the hemlock is so good.

Dude, yours got invisibility. The power is hella good, but you won't roll that every game. So I think you are overstating it's power a little bit.

Runes of the Farseer is now a free part of the model that gives them a once per phase re-roll of ANY of the dice to cast or deny.

That is why they are better than they were

Getting my first game tonight.

Below is the list I will use (a near-literal translation of my 6th edition tournament list, which explains the CaD rather than taking advantage of the new Formations). I will only play it this way a few times before moving on, just to get a feel for how differently it plays.

Eldar Combined Arms Detachment: 1695 Points

Headquarters 83
Autarch (Fusion Gun, Scorpion Chainsword) 83

Troops 570
5 Dire Avengers (Wave Serpent: Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon) 190
5 Dire Avengers (Wave Serpent: Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon) 190
5 Dire Avengers (Wave Serpent: Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon) 190

Elites 235
5 Fire Dragons (Wave Serpent: Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon) 235

Fast Attack 482
8 Warp Spiders (Exarch) 162
2 Hornets (Pulse Lasers) 160
2 Hornets (Pulse Lasers) 160

Lord of War 325
Wraith Knight (2 Heavy Wraith Cannons, 2 Scatter Lasers) 325

Dark Eldar Allied Detachment: 155 Points
Archon (Webway Portal, Power Sword, Haywire Grenade) 115
5 Dark Eldar Warriors 40

1850

We'll see how much I depended on Serpent Shields and Laserlock. My guess is a lot.

Nerfs:
• Wave Serpent lost Laserlock
• Wave Serpent traded 60”, multi-use, 2-7 shot, S7 ignores cover, pinning (and usually twin-linked) ‘gun’ for a 24”, single-use, 2-12 shot, S6 ignores cover, strikedown ‘gun’
• Wave Serpent traded +1 Cover Save Holofields for 5++ Holofields (may be an even trade /shrug)
Buffs:
• Dire Avengers gained Overwatch at BS2 OR Counterattack & Stubborn on the turn they are assaulted
• Fire Dragons gained ‘Assured Destruction’, are now +3 on pen charts with Fusion Guns AND Melta Bombs
• Warp Spiders traded shooting at S7 v I3 or less for rolling to wound v the model’s Initiative, still auto-wounding on a 6 at AP2; nerf v vehicles but overall buff
• Warp Spiders traded ‘lose a guy on any doubles’ for ‘lose a guy on snake eyes’

One thing a lot of people are missing is that while the eldar can still spam str6, it isn't all guaranteed ignores cover. Now aegis lines and camo cloaks will actually help against their crowd control shooting, and that is going to matter a lot in their power level.

Sitting behind an aegis all game is a loosing tactics since 7-th.

Not once have i won games vs gunlines as mellee orkses without even reaching mellee. Now imagine a shooty highly mobile force that can keep you in your deployment zone all game long.