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Hi Dakka.

So, the dark gods tempted me to switch from Grey Knights to the Khorne Daemonkin, primarily due to my inherent hatred of losing against Eldar all the time (so double irony with Grey Knights -> Daemons and now more powerful Eldar).

I have been playing around with some lists for a few weeks trying to find a nice happy medium for my friendly games. I was hoping people could relay their thoughts on the few lists below, and which they think might be the best or if there are any obvious mistakes or oversights I have made. Most of the lists are for fun more than super serious game play. Note that we have no gargantuan creatures and no super heavies in our games.

List 1: Bloodhost Daemonpack (Primary goal is to maximize blood points, summon Prince on Lord, then Bloodthirster from Axe).


List 2: Bloody Symmetry CAD (I feel like this is a nice all round list, relying more on Heavy Support than the previous list for vehicle damage). I like how symmetrical it could look on the table


List 3: Obsec Spawns CAD + Gorepack (This list is going back to relying on the thirster and Metlaguns for anti-tank, but utilises spawns for objective grabbing).


That was a long list to type out so I may have missed something, but that should be it. I'd love to know everyone's thoughts!

Not commenting on a particular list, just some tactics

If you take chaos space marines take them with 2 meltaguns, drop the havoc launcher

in your second list the flesh hounds are weaker since they lose hammer of wrath for not being in the gorepack

if you give a lord korlath you might want to skip the other upgrades (juggernaught) since his goal is pretty much to die

if you take a slaughter cult take 2 8 man cultist squads to take advantage of the double tithe result and if they run you can sacrifice them instantly and claim a blood point

if your not fighting gargantuan creatures/super heavies consider a wrath bloodthirster instead of an insensate one because it has a lot more anti infantry capabilities (whip + flamer + preferred enemies characters) and will always attack first in close combat

Thanks for the response chaosmarauder.

The meltaguns on the marines makes sense. Gives them a bit more versatility.

Not having the hounds in the Gorepack does make them a bit weaker, but I'm not overly bothered about their hammer of wrath in that list. Given the 50mm base size, you only get a couple anyway. And I felt having a Chaos Lord in 2 of those units giving them Rage and Counter Attack makes up for it.

For the Kor'lath lord, I wanted to attempt the total cheese broken rules of summoning the Daemon Prince, and hence a Bloodthirster, then a second Bloodthirster on the Prince's death (unless this has now been FAQ'd?), so I wanted him to survive until I had enough bloodpoints. If this isn't a thing anymore, then I probably wouldn't take Kor'lath as having to wait 2 turns to charge with a single Bloodthirster after he deep strikes makes him quite redundant in my eyes. Unless I've overlooked something there.

I'll see if I can find a way to fit the Cultists in, any extra blood points are always welcome.

My main concern with the Wrath Bloodthirster is that he only has S6 (or 7 on the charge), which makes him pretty redundant against vehicles, and AT is what my lists seem to be lacking at the moment.

I can try to write a new list, perhaps using the Wrath Bloodthirster as solid anti-infantry and add in the Soulgrinders / Maulerfiend for AT. On that respect, which is preferable for consistent AT? I realize the Maulerfiend is a beast if he makes it into combat, but runs the risk of becoming immobilised and the most frustrated creature in existence!

Thanks for the help, I'm still fairly new to Chaos/Daemons so getting to grips with it all!

Most tank damage is going to happen on the first 2 turns, before your bloodthirster will get to the tanks since he has to hop across the board and hit them in close combat.

Same problem with maulerfiends.

In both cases, if your opponent goes first he will get a full 2 rounds of shooting before you hit the tanks, maybe 3 if he has a good infantry screen.

I think the best long range anti tank in the codex is soul grinders or helbrutes.

I know typically, everyone says run the helbrutes in the formations but then they lose bftbg which is totally useless.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm thinking of running 2 helbrutes with twinlink lascannon and missile launcher.

Also, land raiders could be a good choice here. One or 2 sitting on backfield objectives firing 3 lascannons each across the board.

If you go with chaos space marine allies you could take imperial armour 13 units, the 100 point chaos drop pod, and drop some daemonkin chaos space marines with 2 meltaguns and combi melta (problem is the thing doesn't have a guidance system so is prone to mishapping...but the cool part is it can takeoff after unloading the troops and acts like a gigantic flying flamer)

Anti tank should be the focus (probably half the points of the army should go here), as the codex has absolutely no problem whatsoever with anti infantry.


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you could do something like 2 landraiders with a squad each of berzerkers, that would be your anti infantry and your anti tank right there and they can assault out of them

At the moment I am very drawn to the Soulgrinder. The Phlegm bombardment is what's selling it for me, the S8 AP3 Large Blast is very appealing with all these Eldar Jetbikes and Wraithguard wandering around, plus it's excellent for killing MSU Marines.

I have yet to try any Landraiders in my games. For the points, I feel like it makes sense to have 1 LR over 2 Hellbrutes. The combination with Berzerkers does sound very fun!

I might have to try adding a Brute or 2 to sit on back field and hold objectives and lay some Lascannon fire if the Soulgrinders don't prove effective. I rarely see AV14 vehicles in my meta so this could be effective.

As you seem experienced on the matter, do you think CSM are worth the cost in this codex, or is it more beneficial just to load up on Cultists?

If you don't see alot of av14 in your meta could be a good idea to take the landraiders since most won't be prepared for them.

As for CSM vs Cultists

Cultists give you a much needed body count, units of 8 are great for building blood points, plus with rage from mark of khorne, plus a blood tithe bonus, plus an additional bonus if in a slaughtercult, they won't be too bad in melee either.

For a fully decked out CSM unit of 10 in a rhino you could probably take 5 8-man cultist squads, and that is a lot of units to run around sitting on objectives, using their bodies as cover, or just plain sacrificing them for the blood god.

CSM

CSM generally aren't considered competative or good at filling a particular role that someone else can't do better, BUT a good tactician could use them on the battlefield to adapt to a needed role on the fly.

The best way to run them is with 2 melta guns, combi melta, melta bombs on champion, in a rhino. For khorne daemonkin I would probobly run them with cc weapons and pistols since with rage you want to get them into assault, and if you are firing bolters it means you are not running or assaulting and wasting rage. Plus if you are firing at something to kill it with the meltaguns it probobly means the bolters won't hurt it.

-if you need to take down a vehicle or walker fast, they can meltagun it

-if you need to take out a block of infantry or even elite infantry, they are good at cc

-if you want berzerkers but are short on points, for a few less you can take these guys for almost the same roll

-if you want to play a unit that's considered the underdog but look cool and could still murder with chainswords and meltaguns take these guys


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Another tactic with the cultists you can do now, is just take a full squad of them and stickem with a herald for fearless, this is a crazy cheap tarpit unit.


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another use for cultists, spread them out around your soul grinders, defilers (yes another underdog), or long range helbrutes so that melta guns cant get close and those pesky sternguard can't drop pod beside them (with a big enough unit you can even stop them from getting within 12" at all) just stick the defiler in a corner and put 35 cultists infront of it spread out as much as possible and see how close anything can get.


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lol and then put a herald in the cultist unit, surround them with the aegis defense line and quad gun, and get the herald to man the quad gun

-defiler can shoot across the board, gets 3+ cover save and is screened by a fearless unit of cultists with a ballistic skill 7 herald manning a quad gun

Haha, love that idea of a mega cultist defence star! I'm definitely going to have to try that at some point just for fun!

Hmmm, that's definitely given me a lot to think about. I think the reason I have been defaulting to CSM is because the Berzerkers aren't very cost effective, and I assumed the CSM would be a better all round unit, especially when given the Icon of Wrath they fulfil the same role but without Fearless. It didn't really occur to me that Cultists could actually be more useful than them!

If the only real benefit is the Meltaguns, would it be more beneficial to take an additional bike squad in a Gorepack plus a unit of cultists? That would come to approximately the same cost, 106 points for the bikes and 58 for the Cultists. That gives me more manoeuvrability with the Meltaguns and an additional objective grabbing unit that is happy to die. If so, I could then replace the CSM in the Slaughtercult with 2 units of Bloodletters that would deep strike.

I'm still unsure on HQ choices and what's the best to use, I feel I put too much hope into my HQ destroying everything. For the moment thinking of the HQ as more of a must have, how about this for a list?

Bloodhost Detachment - 1499 points

Slaughtercult
Herald - The Brazen Rune
Chaos Cultists (25)
Possessed
Bloodletters (8)
Bloodletters (8)

Gorepack
Chaos Bikers (3) - 2 Meltaguns, Meltabombs
Chaos Bikers (3) - 2 Meltaguns, Meltabombs
Chaos Bikers (3) - 2 Meltaguns, Meltabombs
Flesh Hounds (5)
Flesh Hounds (5)
Flesh Hounds (5)
Flesh Hounds (5)

War Engine
Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

War Engine
Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

There's always the double blood host detachment with 2 slaughter cults and 2 war engines for 2 points a turn and 2 free blood tithe results

I'm not so sure about the double Blood Host. Is the 300 point Possessed tax really worth it? Just for comparison, I just made a quick double host:

Bloodhost Detachment 1:

Slaughtercult:
Herald
Possessed
Bloodletters (8)
Bloodletters (8)

War Engine:
Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

Bloodhost Detachment 2:

Slaughtercult:
Herald
Possessed
Bloodletters (8)
Bloodletters (8)

War Engine:
Soul Grinder - Phlegm Bombardment

Gorepack:
Chaos Bikers (3) - 2x Meltagun, Meltabombs
Chaos Bikers (3) - 2x Meltagun, Meltabombs
Flesh Hounds (7)
Flesh Hounds (7)

I realise you get a lot of Blood Tithe, but is it worth it? How does applying the Blood Tithe results work? I assume I pick one (lets say I picked summon 3 Bloodcrushers), and then I have to pick one free result that only applies to Slaughtercult 1, and another that only applies to Slaughtercult 2?

It works for all models with blood for the Blood god, you get 2 free from the first 4 options and they can be the same so you could summon then gives everyone +2 attacks

Really? Because it says the second result applies to all units in the formation. But isn't the Bloodhost the formation? And there are 2 Bloodhosts, so that's 2 separate formations?

Yeah on closer look that is what it looks like but they really should put only there. So I guess it gives you army a added flexibility but not a 2 attack bonus which is really the only one to double anyways but the 2 points is nice though.

well you still give army wide fnp, and then + 1 attack for one slaughtercult and maybe rage/furious for the other

Very true. So from the lists I've posted above (5) which do you think is the most viable? Or the most well rounded?

Honestly...I would say its more a preference of playstyle and rule of cool (to you)

as an example, I'll list what I have in my collection and want to try combos of all of them:

(by the way I'm painting them as The Wrath from the daemonkin codex)

-bloodthirster (probably going to build as insensate...or wrath)
-2 demon princes (going to kit bash with leftover bloodthirster bits i think)
-20 berzerkers
-6 chaos bikes (using extra berzerker heads)
-10 possessed
-6 bloodcrushers
-3 fantasy chaos knights on juggernaughts i intend to make into lords on juggernauts or herald
-skull cannon (or throne not sure which one i want so might magnetize it if its possible)
-40 cultists
-30 bloodletters
-couple heralds
-10 terminators
-terminator lord
-20 chaos space marines
-4 rhinos
-3 helbrutes
-defiler
-4 spawn
-10 chaos hounds im going to proxy as flesh hounds (till i get some of the real ones)

My first list is going to be something like
-bloodthirster insensate
-bunch of 8 man cultists
-bunch of 1 unit spawn
-gorepack with bikers and hounds
-lascannon/missile helbrutes
-2 units of berzerkers in rhinos

-leave the other demons (bloodletters, princes, skull cannon) for summoning
-really want to try the bloodcrusher/terminator formation

something like that

At the end of the day it will be trial and error and experience that will steer me to the ultimate list (until im bored of it)


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By the way, I'm lucky the guys I play against are pretty casual and use tyranid/csm helbrute spam list mostly, (and soon a space marine salamander army) so I can play a lot of fun lists and still put up a good fight.

If you go against a lot of tau/necron/eldar I would probobly think my list specifically for my meta...what is your meta anyway?

Nice, you've got a very nice selection of units there. I'm still building mine up, but the current total is:

Bloodthirster (old model, will become a prince, potentially Skarbrand once I get the new one)
Daemon Prince
Herald
Skullcannon/Bloodthrone (it is possible to magnetize)
Lord in power armour
6 Bloodcrushers
20 Bloodletters
10 Marines
12 Berzerkers
10 Flesh Hounds (mix of SW wolves and Dire Wolves - aiming to get some Chaos Hounds next month. The actual Flesh Hounds are far to expensive!).
5 Possessed
5 Terminators
35 Cultists
3 Spawn

Once the Grey Knights have sold this Sunday I'll be getting 6 Bikes (probably from eBay DV and convert), 20 Chaos Hounds and 2 Soulgrinders. Hopefully the new Bloodthirster by the end of the month as well!

My local meta is Ultramarines (tanks mostly), Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and Eldar. Eldar have always been the hardest to beat for me, so I'm hoping my Phlegm bombardments and hounds are enough to slow down his Wraithguard and bikes haha!

Definitely looking forward to playing as Khorne more, I've been playing GKs for a year now and they've just got so damn boring to play as. It's one list and that's all you get lol!

I'm sitting on (Khorne wise)

50 bloodletters

40 flesh hounds

2 lord of skulls

30 khorne bezerkers

10 space marines

50 cultists

5 terminators ( thunderclaws)

1 bloodthirster

3 daemon princes 2 with wings 1 without

2 defilers

1 soul grinder

6 bikers

1 juggernaut lord

1 bike lord

1 terminator lord

1 power armor lord on foot

4 heralds

1 converted skulltaker (beastmen conversion)

15 possesed

1 land raider

2 rhinos

1 helldrake

1 skullcannon

4 chaos spawn

But that's what I got so far

Need to get me 6 to 9 blood crushers

And 20 raptors and 20 warp talons

But waiting on a deal to pop up

Here's my Khorne model inventory (some of it I have yet to assemble):
DV Chaos Lord
DV Chosen (will probably use them as Aspiring Champions or something)
DV Helbrute
DV Cultist squads (20 total including 2 leaders)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
20 Bloodletters
10 CSM
5 Possessed
10 Raptors
5 Warp Talons
Heldrake (just finished assembling)
2 Rhinos
Daemon Prince
Skull Cannon/Blood Throne (will probably just build as a skull cannon and use the included Herald separately once I acquire a base for him)
5 Flesh Hounds (these are the old metal ones that look different from the current ones, and they were much cheaper than the current ones on eBay)

I intend to run a Blood Host with Khorne's Bloodstorm since I like the idea of hard-hitting jump infantry and I want to run a hellturkey because I like flyers (I also want to do something different since nearly everyone else only talks about the Gorepack). Don't know how it will fare in my widely varied meta, though. Like what was said above, just go with something you like, and slowly tailor it until it becomes effective on the TT.

That hellbrute makes a great dp after a lil conversion