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Most people I see on here enjoy playing against Orks but I don't see the fun in it.

He plays mostly boyz (either 12 man shoots boyz with each armour in trunks, 20 man boys (changes between sluggas and shoot as) and a single 30 man slugga squad for his lucky stikk Megaboss

He also uses lobbas, lootas, painboyz, meks and stuff but I just don't enjoy fighting this army.

I play Tau (and I lose quite often since plasma guns and missile pods on crisis suits don't do that much against boyz) and Tyranids (who always lose to Works as I can never beat him in combat).

I find that he gets into combat way too quickly and easily every single game so my Tau never stand a chance and my Tyranids can never kill enough before he gets close.

I play suits and vehicles mostly for Tau (rarely use a Riptide anymore) and I play monsters and medium size guys like Zoanthropes for Tyranids.


Does anyone else feel the same way as me?

As an Ork player, this sounds really fun Remember, Orks have BS 2 meaning we have to get our boyz into combat asap! Certain armies are just better against others (when I play Tau I normally win same with Nids) but Orks do their fair share of losing

honestly that just sounds like a boring as feth list.

I mean, think of how boring you'd think Tau were if your opponent just played fire warriors on foot and devilfish with fire warriors in them. I have real trouble fielding more than 2 of any one thing in any army I run, anything particularly spammy I just find dull.

Oh, and if you want to beat orks with nids...just gotta get them in close combat instead of letting them charge you. Remember, orks are only S3 if they're not on the charge, that won't even scratch most nid monsters. A solo nob with a PK is going to spend a long time trying to chew through a carnifex and those orks will be losing combat and rolling on the mob rule table most turns losing additional boyz. What you should do is use the zoeys to pop any trukks you can turn one, get those boyz footslogging, then maneuver so you get the charge off as much as possible. Remember that the nova power Psychic Scream CAN affect units in close combat since it does not target them, so just sidle your zoeys up to a couple different melees and let loose on their low leadership values.

I dunno man, to be honest Tau are typically a really tough matchup for Orks. Between high volumes of S5 anti-infantry fire and JSJ shenanigans, it can be tough to actually get them into combat before getting obliterated. A lot of Ork players consider Tau the paper to our rock, as it were. If you're bringing small numbers of crisis suits kitted out to kill terminators then yeah, a horde army is going to win every time, but obviously plasma suits are not a good unit to spam against orks. Fire warriors, missilesides, and burst cannons will make the game laughably one-sided in your favour. Don't be afraid to pull back in order to avoid getting charged, and keep your units within 6" to benefit from overlapping overwatch.

I play both orks and tau, and honestly everyone loves playing my ork army. My tau army is the one people complain is no fun to play against. Playing against orks makes them feel like the British at Rorke's drift, trying to hold out against overwhelming numbers. Playing against tau, they feel like they're charging the Somme, dudes getting slaughtered while doing very little in return except for their arty. Anecdotal, but I've had guard players flat out refuse to play against a tau army, and everyone has a good time when I bring out the ol' green tide.

I'm sorry your experience is different, but maybe changing your list up will help refresh things for you.

Yeah I do win myfair share too with Tau but I just think that my play style is just bad with my Tyranids against Orks.

I don't think that the Ork player enjoys it though as he loves complaining about Tau (which is extremely annoying).

^^ If you kill the trukks, a squad of 12 boys will go down really quickly.

I'll try the Turanid tactics next game

I agree that Tau can dominate any army if they tailor but if I only take burst cannons and stuff then they won't do much (IME) against marines as he plays Daemonkin and Nurgle CSM too (I enjoy playing against both of them though) .



What is everyone's view on the lucky stikk? I personally cannot stand it as it makes that 30man squad invincible as he can just reroll his failed saves and he never plays a game without it :(

Flamers. Take flamers on suits instead of Plasma. If you realize that Plasma's not working for you, then you need to change things up instead of just doing things the same. Unless his Orks are in closed-topped Battlewagons, you'll almost literally cook him with those flamers. Remember, your flamers will hit INTO the open-topped Transports, and will fire on Overwatch. Back up those flamers with some MissileSides and a couple squads of Firewarriors and just toast him.

Alternatively, consider how you're moving. Orks in Trukks may be fast (though they should die almost instantly to Tau firepower), but once they're out of the Trukks you can play keep-away all day long with Tau.

In all honesty, this should be your easiest match-ups. Try to plan around how he's moving. If he's beating you with effectively just foot-sloggers, then you're probably doing something majorly wrong.

Do you take Tyranids to try and match him in close combat? If so, stop that. Don't try to fight him on his terms. Fight him on YOUR terms - shooting terms. Make him pay for every inch of ground, then move around to create more ground.

If I took flamer suits then would that be fun for him? It seems like something that he'd complain about...

I get that usually Tau will win but I don't want to table him every game as he's my usual opponent so I don't want to table him as that'd be no fun for anyone.

With Tyranids, I prefer MCs and my 20 man hormagaunts (when I do make them) never do anything.

Which Tyranid units are best again st Orks?

SGTPozy wrote:

If I took flamer suits then would that be fun for him? It seems like something that he'd complain about...

SGTPozy wrote:

Which Tyranid units are best again st Orks?

Does it matter if you think he'll just sulk at it anyways?!

Sounds like you're not having fun, so have a word with him and say "I think I'll try something else next week. Maybe flamers. Just a heads up in case you wanted to freshen things up"

SGTPozy wrote:
If I took flamer suits then would that be fun for him? It seems like something that he'd complain about...

I get that usually Tau will win but I don't want to table him every game as he's my usual opponent so I don't want to table him as that'd be no fun for anyone.?

If he is a true Ork player, Yes it will be fun.

Personally I love a new chalange so if you showed up with flamers I would change my play style and adapt. Bring um!

Well, it depends what your goals are. If you're trying to win, which seemed to be the case in your original post, then yeah Flamers will be annoying for him but you will do a lot better. I have a friend that tends to bring lots of flamers with his foot-slogger Imperial Guard, especially if I'm playing my Orks. It definitely increases the stakes of the game, as I have to be very careful how and in what order I destroy his numerous Chimeras! Yes it's a shift, but if you're finding the game boring, a shift may be necessary!

If you're playing instead just to have fun, and really don't care about winning or losing, yet find Orks to be boring, then I think you should definitely switch to going solo-Tyranids, and also ask your opponent to start mixing something up with his Orks. Maybe try some scenarios where there's different things going on, and which types of units and which armies benefit can shift.

As for best Tyranids vs Orks... I don't know if that's the question you really want answered if you're concerned about annoying him with Flamer-Suits. The best Tyranids for Orks are Dakka-Flyrants and Hive Crones, just like they're the best Tyranids against almost anyone else. Tervigons can be fun against Orks because they're hard to kill and generate more and more Termagaunts for the Orks to have to fight through. Hive Guard rip apart Trukks while staying out of Line of Sight.

SGTPozy wrote:
I agree that Tau can dominate any army if they tailor but if I only take burst cannons and stuff then they won't do much (IME) against marines as he plays Daemonkin and Nurgle CSM too (I enjoy playing against both of them though) .

Even without tailoring, you can use the Plasma to pop Trukks, as they are S6 (causing damage on 4+), AP2 (which, combined with Open Topped, means a +2 to the damage table), and then wipe out the small number of Orks with Firewarriors.

SGTPozy wrote:
What is everyone's view on the lucky stikk? I personally cannot stand it as it makes that 30man squad invincible as he can just reroll his failed saves and he never plays a game without it :(

Does your friend realize he can only use the re-rolls on the Boss? Use the wound allocation rules to get wounds onto the Boyz instead of the 2+ re-rollable tanker.

SGTPozy wrote:

Which Tyranid units are best again st Orks?

Well, Flying Hive Tyrants with Twin Linked Devourers and Electroshock Grubs are awesome. Possibly too awesome for a friendly game though. Crones are fantastic against Orks. Carnifexes used as gun platforms are pretty good. Biovores are excellent. Devilgaunts (Termagants with Devourers) in pods are also terrific. If you put 20 in a pod thats 60 S4 shots and 5 S4 pinning large blasts on the turn they drop. Lots of dead orks.

The lukky stikk is a neat piece of kit but not game breaking as orks can't have an invul under most circumstances. Maneuver around so you can shoot into the flanks away from the boss to whittle the numbers down, then start putting plasma rounds into the warboss. Either that or just use your maneuverability and JSJ to keep him running in circles.

Remember that mega armour makes the warboss SnP, so his unit can't run. It should take at least three or four turns for him to reach you in assault; if he's running that unit then he's doing it wrong.

I understand you're worried about list tailoring, but at the moment it sounds like you're tailored for dealing with small, elite armies and a horde is giving you trouble. Maybe rounding out the list and making it more flexible by including some cheap flamers, burst cannons, fire warriors, and so on will make a difference. Missilesides are flexible enough to pull double-duty and take on hordes or terminators both.

Edit: he needs to be flexible too. Orks have a ton of tools for dealing with gunline lists, MCs, FMCs, and whatever else you throw at him, but if he just wants to bring a bunch of infantry and expects everyone else to not take the units that will kill his infantry so that the game isn't unfair, well, he's not being too reasonable in my mind.

I'll definitely try flamer suits too
The thing with Flyrants is that I feel bad when I take more than one.
I'll try Devilgaunts too.

The Warboss is always the closest model as he always has other units at the sides to prevent me from out maneuvering him and terrain is always extremely thick because "Tau are cheese".

My aim is to win but I take units that I like but I just find that I dislike his lists and basically his attitude whilst playing Orks.

He's also always so lucky with his FNP rolls so he loses hardly anyone whenever I shoot which sucks :(


I'll just have to try a different list then.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I stopped using Aun'Va and Ethereals in general as in 6th he complained that I played gunline (even though only my 2x5 pathfinders, 3x12 fire warriors and the Ethereal would be stationary) with everything else moving around

I hardly use missile sides or riptides because everyone used to complain so U can't really use missile sides

Completely disagree. Killing soft infantry is always fun.

Sounds like your opponent complains a lot. Remember, the game needs to be fun for both you and your opponents! If you have fun playing with the stronger units, then play with them! If your opponents can't stomach it, find new opponents. If you play without certain units because "well people complain..." then you'll find yourself in a vicious circle where there's always some unit that'll be complained about until you eventually find the game boring and repetitive.

I get you need to strike a balance between lists, but again, if he can't adapt a little bit, that's hardly fair to you. You don't need to play gunline to beat him, and honestly if you're not spamming riptides or missilesides they're fair game. I typically bring one IA riptide and one unit of missilesides to a friendly game when I play Tau. They're tough, but not unmanageable.

You could try horse-trading. "I won't bring my riptide if you don't take da lukky stikk" etc. Cheese goes both ways, and if he wants a game where you're leaving some of your best tools behind, he should be prepared to do the same.

You're sort of making it sound like any time you bring a list that can actually beat him, he complains, and he's basically just winning by complaining. I can see why you're not having fun, and I don't think it has to do with the army so much as the person playing it.

Pre game - try equiping a few of your units with flamers and blast weapons to deal with hordes

Turn 1 - pop the trucks, shoot at the 20 boy squads
Turn 2 - shoot at the 20 and 30 boy squads, flame the trukk boys if they turbo boosted the previous turn.
Turn 3 - shoot whatever appears weakest, try to kill nobs/ force a leadership test. If the warboss is not almost dead, ignore him and move important units out of the way.
Turn 4 - accept the loss of that one squad of Fire warriors, shoot anything that still moves
Turn 5+ - claim objectives, clear board

From an ork player, this is the strategy that brings me down. Trukks explode at the drop of a hat and the boyz inside die in a single round of shooting. Forcing a leadership check in a nobless squad is often a quick way of ending an ork threat. Also, the warboss deathstar can only assault one unit a turn, a squad of fire warriors or kroot can hold them up while you reposition and dakka them to death.

If their tactics are to beserk charge, play for the objectives. Use jump infantry and hover tanks to zoom around the board while the boyz are left running and walking after the turn 1 loss of their trukks.

My brother plays Orks, and I also have a hard time beating him with my Tau. Iridium armor (or what ever its called) is mandatory on your commander so he can join with a squad of suits and tank hits with t5 and 2+ (I hate Kannons and deffkoptas).

I use a buff-mander, which should be easily able to take out 3 truks in 1 turn (4 missile pod attacks per suit with rerolls on the hits and armor pens and ignoring cover), leaving his boys in the open (does require taking some target locks as well so you can spread your shots). Last game I happened to bring a hammerhead while he was mostly footslogging, his boys did not like the template .

I find firewarriors to be mixed effective, if he has heavy armor they wont hit as hard, but with markerlight support you will get a *lot* of hits, lengthening charge ranges in the process.

I also use a 2nd squad of crisis suits with TL Burstcannons and flamers, great for GEQ killing and helping with overwatch, but vulnerable to str 8 ap3 attacks, so keep them hidden/in cover (and a 3rd one with dual fusions for deepstriking).

There was a guy who used to be play gunline in my area. I complained about his gunline, but not that its boring but only because I was a newer player and I wasn't sure how to circumvent it. Once I figured it out after a couple games I knew ways to get around it. He eventually quit because he couldn't figure out how to win. Everyone in the area knew that every time they played him, it'd be a gunline. So it'd just have to be an anti-gunline list.

Things like markerlights, flamers, rapid fire, or blast templates chew Orks up.

Trukks are AV10 so anything can really chew them up quick if you shoot it enough.

If you take out the mobility, then you can force a morale check because blast of the trukk exploding will average out to be about 3 dead boyz on top of the burning wreckage. Morale may still pass, but that's 3 less boys to worry about and small squads die quick.

Nail the trukks, battlewagons, and vehicles and his army will be stuck 36' away and having to foot slog (not to mention his trukk guys will probably take hard hits on the morale table)

Anything with jsj can be a PITA for Orks since it takes longer to catch them.

To be honest it sounds like he called you out to be boring and guilt you into making a 'non cheese' list; and in the process shoe horned himself into something that he tailored against you.

Shake things up, and add in fast moving vehicles and he'll be forced to shake his stuff up.

Orks live and die by the number of boyz they bring. So if you don't like fighting a bunch of bodies. You won't like fighting orks.

My non tide list is 130 + models, so be lucky your friend uses trucks for less bodies

Yes, yes you are.

Orks vs Tau (and vise versa) is my most commonly played matchups as I own both armies.

Please don't use flame crisis suits, while they do damage it puts crisis suits dangerously close to the boyz and away from supporting fire. To get any good roasting done your going to need to be starting your turn in charge distance of the Orks or doing a danger close deepstrike. Burst cannons can do work vs Orks and are great for kiting. Drop behind the Ork lines and force them to chase you (you will have space to kite back) or ignore you and get shredding from the rear. Deepstrike to kill the lobbas, getting into CC vs grots is perfectly fine as they will only be T2 instead of 7 plus hitting on 4s and wounding on 2s with your crisis suits.

Supporting Fire is your friend which can butcher a charge. Defensive grenades remove the furious charge and extra attack from him. Deploy your forces so they can make a fighting retreat to kite the boyz on foot. Kill transports ASAP, Trukk's are death traps and even the pinning checks from a wreck/explosion can net wounds due to mob rule. Battlewagons are a tough nut to crack with anything other than a Longstrike hammerhead or fusion suits.

Ethereals are amazing for your fire warriors with the extra shot in rapid fire range. I think the stubborn aura is terrible vs Orks as it can keep them locked into combat which means your not getting to shoot them. If your infantry get charged then it's better to do the most overwatch that you can then die for the greater good (get your melee attacks in of course).

Crisis suits and Riptides should kite the enemy with their JSJ. Hammerhead tanks should try to move and shoot, submunitions are deadly vs Orks.

Don't waste shots on the lobbas, their T7 grots are dirt cheap and it's going to take a ton of fire to get any noticeable kills (even worse if they are camping ruins). Charge them with Kroot or crisis suits to clear them out. 1 round of combat should cause them to run away.

SGTPozy wrote:
Most people I see on here enjoy playing against Orks but I don't see the fun in it.

He plays mostly boyz (either 12 man shoots boyz with each armour in trunks, 20 man boys (changes between sluggas and shoot as) and a single 30 man slugga squad for his lucky stikk Megaboss

He also uses lobbas, lootas, painboyz, meks and stuff but I just don't enjoy fighting this army.

You realize he uses those units because unlike Tau, Orks actually don't have many good units to choose from?

Compare a Gorkanaught to a Riptide and you'll see what I mean. Or a deff dread to any other dreadnaught in the game - its a pile of gak.

And dreadnoughts are already terrible compared to MCs.

 Dakkamite wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Most people I see on here enjoy playing against Orks but I don't see the fun in it.

He plays mostly boyz (either 12 man shoots boyz with each armour in trunks, 20 man boys (changes between sluggas and shoot as) and a single 30 man slugga squad for his lucky stikk Megaboss

He also uses lobbas, lootas, painboyz, meks and stuff but I just don't enjoy fighting this army.

You realize he uses those units because unlike Tau, Orks actually don't have many good units to choose from?

Compare a Gorkanaught to a Riptide and you'll see what I mean. Or a deff dread to any other dreadnaught in the game - its a pile of .

Orks actually have a fair selection of good units. Warbikers, lootas, mek guns, battlewagons, tankbustas, meganobz, dakkajets, blitza bommers, warboss, big mek, painboy, weirdboy (Ork powers are quite good with only eadbanger being outright bad and da Krunch being fun but dubious.).
Deffdreads are actually quite good in CC compared to dreadnoughts and are cheaper (but are heavy support so you will never see them). Problem is the core rules for the army is weak and Orks struggle with fitting everything they need in crowded FOC slots.

 Dakkamite wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Most people I see on here enjoy playing against Orks but I don't see the fun in it.

He plays mostly boyz (either 12 man shoots boyz with each armour in trunks, 20 man boys (changes between sluggas and shoot as) and a single 30 man slugga squad for his lucky stikk Megaboss

He also uses lobbas, lootas, painboyz, meks and stuff but I just don't enjoy fighting this army.

You realize he uses those units because unlike Tau, Orks actually don't have many good units to choose from?

Compare a Gorkanaught to a Riptide and you'll see what I mean. Or a deff dread to any other dreadnaught in the game - its a pile of gak.

True, but compare a Stealth Suit to a Kommando (or three kommandoes as the case may be ) or a Vespid to a...anything.

Most of the Ork Dex is solid. It's biggest problem is a FOC that's SUPER heavy on HS and HQ because all the best units are in HS and the mediocre troops are only good with the force multiplying HQs. Past that most of the FA choices are also very good, the problem is many ork players just have a raging green fungus-on for da boyz.

All the HQs except possibly Weirdboy (who would be good with infinite Hq slots) Mek Gunz MANz Warbikers Deffbuggies Deffcoptas Tankbustas Lootas Kommandos Battlewagons Looted Wagons Meks and Blitza Bombas are all great. The biggest issue is that so many are just Rokkit delivery methods. You got a LOT of options for S7-S8 shooting with da orks and then a lot of options for S4 shooting and melee. Anything but that you've gotta go for Klaws or get creative somehow.

The reason orks take so many boyz is because the codex gives us so many troop choices. We have boyz, boyz, 'ard boyz, boyz, boyz in a trukk, boyz, and cowardly grots.

The FOC and the formation given in the codex support the boy heavy method of list writing. The ork horde detachment gives us an extra 3 troop slots while adding an extra required troop choice. The Ork Warband formation consists of six mobs of boyz, one mob of nobz, and a mob of grots led by a warboss and a mek. To gain the meager benefits offered, the mobs of boyz have to be large as they only help if you can get 10+ boyz into CC.

Going by just the codex without supplements, it is pretty hard not to take a boy heavy list.