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When a D weapon says it scores a penetrating hit that takes d3 hull points, do you roll 1 save versus the hit or as many saves as they score hull points?

If they do wounds, it says you lose d3 wounds instead of 1 - do they roll the d3, and you make that many saves, or do you save once, and failure means you lose d3 wounds?

I don't have my rulebook with me, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but

if the ruling for D-weapons says "instead of rolling to wound, roll on the following table" or something of the sort, I think it would be multiple.

I have seen it played where only 1 die was rolled, and my FLGS has made a house rule where you only roll one save.

IMHO it makes sense on a RAI standpoint because the fluff is that the weapon is so strong that it does more damage than a regular shot, not that it is multiple shots.

on a totally unrelated note, how do you have 40K points of emperors children???? I don't know wether to be amazed or scared.

Happy wargaming,

-Mikey

Long time collecting, several editions of keeping up with competitive play, and a love for large apoc games.

You make one save, and if that save is failed you take d3 wounds

Related: if a unit of tac marines gets hit by a Strength D weapons and it does d3 wounds, do the extra wounds spill over into the unit? I.E. rolled a 5, then a 3 with a D weapon, so kills 3 guys total?

No, individual models take the 'hits' from a D weapon, and if that model fails it's save, it takes d3 wounds, if it only has 1 wound remaining the rest are lost.

chanceafs wrote:
No, individual models take the 'hits' from a D weapon, and if that model fails it's save, it takes d3 wounds, if it only has 1 wound remaining the rest are lost.

Right on. That's what I figured, but first game against Eldar cheese, so I wasn't sure.

This question seems to come up a lot

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/647701.page

 Galef wrote:
On a serious note, those other threads confirm that you roll you invul per wound, but if you fail the save, it becomes D3.

Sequence is:
Roll to hit
Roll to wound using the D table.
-----If 2-5 is rolled, take 1 cover/invul per hit. For each failed save, the model (not the unit) take D3 wounds/hull points
-----If a 6 is rolled, no saves allowed, the model takes 6+D6 wounds or Hull points

It may feel broken at first, but the inability to spill over to other models makes for a good balance, I think.

 Owain wrote:
It may feel broken at first, but the inability to spill over to other models makes for a good balance, I think.

Considering they're one of the only armies with tons of Strength D weapons, sure. Balance.

Considering the Imperium of Man can Battle Brother their way into happy town...balanced (What, Skitarii just joined the party? Here, have a Drop Pod on us!).

DCannon4Life wrote:
Considering the Imperium of Man can Battle Brother their way into happy town...balanced (What, Skitarii just joined the party? Here, have a Drop Pod on us!).

SkItaari can be doubled out easily. Can the same be said of Wraithlords and Wraithknights?

If a D hit causes, say 3 wounds, make 3 saves.

 jreilly89 wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:
Considering the Imperium of Man can Battle Brother their way into happy town...balanced (What, Skitarii just joined the party? Here, have a Drop Pod on us!).

SkItaari can be doubled out easily. Can the same be said of Wraithlords and Wraithknights?

Your one example, comparing an infantry model to a Monstrous and Gargantuan creature, respectively, has destroyed my argument.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
If a D hit causes, say 3 wounds, make 3 saves.

Nope, have a look above

This thread really gets posted every 2 to 3 days.

You take 1 save (because it's 1 hit) and if you succeed, all dmg is prevented.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
If a D hit causes, say 3 wounds, make 3 saves.

Nope, wrong. Please learn why, here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/647701.page

More information can be given if required

I feel like the slow kid in the class, because I still don't understand what the justification is to take only one save. A 2-5 to-wound roll on the D table against non-vehicle units wounds automatically, okay. Roll a d3 to see how many wounds are inflicted. You roll a 6, so 3 wounds are inflicted. Why would one not roll for the 3 separate rules? I see the same reason over and over, because that one "wound" inflicts multiple wounds, yet that is not an explanation in and of itself. One rolls saves against all wounds inflicted in 40k, and I just don't see anything specifying you do otherwise.


Sorry if you have to re-explain something explained a million times, but... *derp*

D-weapons have a different hit/wound process than other weapons:

-A model is hit.
-The D rolls on its special "D Chart" (not the To Wound chart).
-On a 1, nothing; on a 2-5, some wounds; on a 6, many wounds and no saves.
-Taking into account what D-weapons rule says, since there was only one hit, model takes one save (if result was a 2-5).
-If model fails save, anything with 4 wounds or less is removed as a casualty (since D3+3 = a minimum of 4), or roll for models with more wounds.

DCannon4Life wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:
Considering the Imperium of Man can Battle Brother their way into happy town...balanced (What, Skitarii just joined the party? Here, have a Drop Pod on us!).

SkItaari can be doubled out easily. Can the same be said of Wraithlords and Wraithknights?

Your one example, comparing an infantry model to a Monstrous and Gargantuan creature, respectively, has destroyed my argument.

Outside of vehicles, Skitaari are all 2W T3 armor 3/4 models. They don't have psychic powers to up their saves and their vehicles are all AV 13 or lower. Yes, Skitaari are powerful, but also very fragile. Eldar Bikes, Wave Serpents, Lords, and Knights are both powerful and durable.

Why do people say one save? You don't save per hit on models with wounds, you save per wound inflicted. Period. There is a different way to have wounds inflicted via the destroyer table, nothing stating you change the saving throw procedure.

If the table stated that an unsaved wound caused d3 wounds instead, you'd have a case. But it doesn't. If someone fields the R'varna and it hits a monstrous creature, I still make multiple saves. It is the same wording here. Vehicles make a single save because vehicles save on a per hit (penetrating or glancing) basis, not on a per hull point basis.

Pending an FAQ, anything other than a save per wound inflicted is a house rule.

Skittari are doubled out by Krak grenades and Power Mauls. D in this case is no different than S6+.

We could start a thread in Tactics or General to investigate those implications further...

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Why do people say one save? You don't save per hit on models with wounds, you save per wound inflicted. Period. There is a different way to have wounds inflicted via the destroyer table, nothing stating you change the saving throw procedure.

If the table stated that an unsaved wound caused d3 wounds instead, you'd have a case. But it doesn't. If someone fields the R'varna and it hits a monstrous creature, I still make multiple saves. It is the same wording here. Vehicles make a single save because vehicles save on a per hit (penetrating or glancing) basis, not on a per hull point basis.

Pending an FAQ, anything other than a save per wound inflicted is a house rule.

Read the Destroyer wording carefully. Successful destroyer hits each wound automatically and cause a model to lose a number of wounds instead of one.

That is not the same as causing a number of wounds automatically.

One hit, one wound, one save and if failed the wound causes the model to lose however many wounds instead of one.

The destroyer rules mean that you...

Hit
On a 2+ auto wound
Makes saves if allowed/ possible
When you APPLY the wound, roll how many you take.

You are only wounded once but the affect of the wound once applied is greater

The model is still receiving wounds. It doesn't say anything about it taking a different amount of wounds after the save, it simply states the model takes d3 wounds instead of 1.

If I take any number of wounds, I get a save to stop them. That is not being invalidated by any of the wording I see on the chart.

The chart, in essence, causes individual wound pools that may only be allocated to specific models as opposed to the unit.

There is a reason this keeps popping up on here, it is absolutely not cut and dry.

So now for the million dollar question:

How does the Kastelan Robot's Repulsor Grid work when deflecting D weapons?
If multiple saves can be made for a single D weapon shot - the reflected effect would be multiplied..

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The model is still receiving wounds. It doesn't say anything about it taking a different amount of wounds after the save, it simply states the model takes d3 wounds instead of 1.

If I take any number of wounds, I get a save to stop them. That is not being invalidated by any of the wording I see on the chart.

The chart, in essence, causes individual wound pools that may only be allocated to specific models as opposed to the unit.

There is a reason this keeps popping up on here, it is absolutely not cut and dry.

Incorrect. The model doesn't take wounds it loses wounds from the D3 roll. The d3 wounds is changing the effect of the wounds loss not caused. A model only loses wounds if it is unsaved

The reason it keeps popping up is because it could have been worded much better.

From how I see it it is two sentences stuck together. I tend to think of it more like "Seriously Wounded: The model suffers a hit that wounds automatically. The Wound causes d3 losses instead of 1"


It's like the swarm special rule "If a model with the Swarm special rule suffers an unsaved Wound from a Blast (any size) or Template weapon, each unsaved Wound is multiplied to two unsaved Wounds unless that Wound has the Instant Death special rule." It takes one unsaved wound and turns it into multiple unsaved wounds, just in a more clunky manner. Clear as mud... But I hope this helps.

The wound roll is effectively the D chart where you wound automatically. It's only in the apply wounds sequence of the normal process AFTER saves that the D3 or greater takes affect

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The model is still receiving wounds. It doesn't say anything about it taking a different amount of wounds after the save, it simply states the model takes d3 wounds instead of 1.

If I take any number of wounds, I get a save to stop them. That is not being invalidated by any of the wording I see on the chart.

The chart, in essence, causes individual wound pools that may only be allocated to specific models as opposed to the unit.

There is a reason this keeps popping up on here, it is absolutely not cut and dry.

It is cut and dry if you pay attention to the words used by the Rule.

wounds automatically and causes it to lose D3 Wounds instead of 1.

Have a look at the shooting (or CC) Rules. When do you "lose 1 Wound"?

The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model’s Wounds by 1.

Here is the actual part where you reduce the Wounds by 1 ("lose 1 Wound"). This 1 is D3 *instead*

The fact that you have an "automatic Wound" is what you are allocating to the model. The Wound allocation process only cares about that 1 "Seriously Hurt" Auto-Wound, which you roll to save, and then apply effects of the "D":

"The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model’s Wounds by 1."
"The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model’s Wounds by D3 Wounds instead of 1."

Which is why most people here have got it correct:

- Roll To Hit
- Roll for result 1, 2-5, or 6
- Allocate Auto-Wound
- Save Auto-Wound (unless it was a 6)
- Reduce the model's wounds by D3

OK, I'm a dolt. Thanks for clearing it up for me