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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/13 16:52:20
Subject: Re:A very late review of 5th edition
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Well I have been requesting this review for a long time so I'm very happy to finally read it. You make a number of thoughtful and interesting points. It seems like you have a bit of 3.X-induced PTSD, however! I have friends ensconced in that 3.X/4E mindset that tried 5E in the initial tide of good will only to abandon it when they realized "my fighter can still only swing his sword." Which is to say, groups that enjoy ruleplay more than roleplay seem to feel 5E has let too much air out of the tires. As you know, I lean OSR and so 5E strikes me as sending mixed signals -- which of course makes sense because the goal WotC established at the outset was Big Tent D&D. The chimerical result will not please any established camp. My conclusion is, 5E is not really for people who would know to call it 5E. It is for people who would just call it "D&D" ... which is to say, new players or at least players who don't care about things like having a favorite edition.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/14 15:42:27
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition
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[MOD]
Solahma
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For me, this is the big one. I honestly regret everytime I introduced someone to RPGing with a 3.X ruleset. Da Boss wrote:But D'n'D is what it is, it's always going to be fairly mechanical,
If you mean heavy on mechanics, that's totally false. D&D is best when mechanics recede into the background. That's not just a matter of taste, either. Board games and miniatures games do mechanics-heavy D&D better than any RPG. RPGs are for something else, which you capture beautifully here: Da Boss wrote:the important choices are the ones you make in the game rather than outside of it
Okay now that one is true. ... I guess? That one is pretty vague. The MM in my opinion is totally average. There's nothing to really complain about and honestly not very much to praise. I'm interested to hear what you think of that portion of the DMG that isn't a magic items encyclopedia.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/05/14 15:54:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/14 16:03:07
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Da Boss wrote:Some people don't like that, as they feel it gives too much "power" to the GM.
I used to think this way. I once (embarrassing to think of it now) called 3.5 a "Player's Bill of Rights" asserted against DM tyranny. But the truth is, when your "freedoms" are enumerated you simply have less of them. Another thing I have learned (after a lot of arguing with wiser players) is that DM tyranny is the product of tyrannical DMs rather than any rule set. Da Boss wrote:I understand that it was not as prevalent in the old school, but there were still many "systems" for things back then, AFAIK.
I wasn't playing D&D in the 70s (wasn't alive) or 80s. I only started with AD&D 2E Revised in the mid 90s. But I have spent a lot of time poring over each edition, reading recollections of players from those days, and asking tons and tons of questions. More importantly, at least as far as my experience goes, I don't care so much about "old school" (whatever that means) as I do about the OSR -- the Old School Renaissance. Despite the name, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with older players or what they used to do 30+ years ago. Rather, it is about how a generation fed up with 3.X has been playing since the late 2000s.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/15 18:45:47
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Back when the PDF rolled out, the word was early 2015. Some third parties have already been printing 5E stuff anyhow. Example: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1409961192/fifth-edition-fantasy-adventure-modules/description
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/15 18:47:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/15 19:37:49
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition
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[MOD]
Solahma
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You mean, biggest advantage in terms of you personally right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/15 20:10:46
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition
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[MOD]
Solahma
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LOL completely overlooked that, sorry. Da Boss wrote:I just don't really understand why they don't do it, considering it wouldn't be much of a job to put a site like that up.
I'm not sure but I guess it has something to do with branding. Da Boss wrote:Or to make the PDFs of their games available for purchase.
This one is simple. They want to sell print books. Like I mentioned to you in the other thread, Hasbro's strategy with 5E seems to be token market presence.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/01 18:27:29
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition - Monster Manual review added.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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The main criticism I have seen about the MM is that WotC missed the chance to reinvent the format. Not only is that a tall order but I think it misses the point of 5E, which is IMO to capture D&D in an iconic and accessible form. So the MM remains a list of monsters, which admittedly is not exciting to veteran players. But for new players, it has all the charm necessary to whisk the reader off into a fantastical ecology.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/01 21:15:20
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition - Monster Manual review added.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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It makes more sense once you consider that the criticism came from the "veteran" perspective. I think a lot of vets really got carried away by the PHB. As an OSR guy, I was really struck by the number of Basic fans who were ready to give up the Rules Cyclopedia for 5E. (Maybe I am just contrarian but my early reaction to this was skepticism. And I still think the bones of 5E are from 3.X and 4E.) From that position, there was a huge expectation for something just as fresh and exciting from the MM. But then it turned out to be just another MM. I have been in turn criticized for defending it as serviceable for everyone and especially attractive to new players.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/02 15:55:16
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition - Monster Manual review added.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Da Boss wrote:but also quite an unpleasant undercurrent of "Cater to my preferences! Play it the RIGHT way!" to it all sometimes as well
That's certainly true; although the severity of OSR fanaticism is in direct proportion to 3.X entrenchment. Skinnereal wrote:The scrum that is Birmingham has a shop that might stock it (without an online store to say so). I avoid going there unless I have to.
Here in the States, finding a copy of the PHB at national chain book store is a sure thing. Same goes for the Pathfinder core rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/02 18:26:34
Subject: A very late review of 5th edition - Monster Manual review added.
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Yes, it's a proper bestiary. I have had the opportunity to peruse a friend's copy.
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