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I started building my 500pts Imperial Fists army (my first 40k army) and I realized it would be much easier to do if I knew what direction I wanted to grow with it. So here are two lists that I'd love input on, while keeping in mind that the 500pts list is intended to only be a stepping stone into my 750pts list.

This one is what I'm starting with...

Imperial Fists (500)

Captain (150)
Jump Pack
Relic Weapon
Bolter
Artificer Armor

Tactical Squad x5 (85)
Heavy Bolter
Melta Bombs

Tactical Squad x5 (85)
Heavy Bolter
Melta Bombs

Assault Squad x5 (90)
Melta Bombs

Devastator Squad (90)
Lascannon

The Captain will be attached to the Assault Squad.

And this is what it'll build into...

Imperial Fists (750)

Captain (150)
Jump Pack
Relic Weapon
Bolter
Artificer Armor

Tactical Squad x10 (195)
Melta Gun
Heavy Bolter
Rhino

Tactical Squad x10 (195)
Melta Gun
Heavy Bolter
Rhino

Assault Squad x5 (90)
Melta Bombs

Devastator Squad (120)
Lascannon
Lascannon
Heavy Bolter

The Captain will be attached to the Assault Squad. The Tactical Squads will be command squaded, but will ride in the Rhinos together until I drop the Heavy Bolter Squads where I want them, then the remaining Melta Gun/Rhino Squad will go on armor hunting duty and put out fires that arise along my firing line (with the help of the Captain and his Assault Squad).

Welp, there you have it. It has taken me about a week to draft this (and another thread that helped immensely), but I finally ordered the start of the kit (tactical x10, assault x5, devastator x5, captain, paint, brushes, brush cleaner, sanding pads, primer and duller) and feel very happy with the list from a gameplay and fluff perspective. The only thing I have left is to pick up some magnets and see if there are any final tweaks/words of advice I can get from the helpful community here!

Thanks for being so helpful so far, Dakka Community!

First of all, welcome to the wonderful (yet expensive) hobby of WH40K and the hobby of tabletop wargaming in general.

The list is not the most competitive, but could be fun.

Lets start of with the things I like about the list. -
-Devastators as IF. With lascannons they are amazing and will pop all of the armour. with tank hunter and S9, up to armour 14 wont even be that much of a problem.
-relic blade on the captain is a good (often underlooked) option IMO. S6 and AP3 is a good option.

Things I dont like -
-heavy bolters. As IFs, they are better than usual, but still quite bad, do to many factors, but mainly the fact that heavy weapons are quite bad on tactical marines because they want to stay mobile, and a heavy weapon hurts said mobility. And units like devastators can take better options (lascannons for example).
-the captain. He is taking up almost 1/3 of your points in the first list. Too expensive for what he will do, and for an HQ its better to seek a cheep HQ in this low point games (examples, librarian, even chaplains are cheaper would fulfill a similar role.)
-the mixed loadouts on the devs. Although it seems good on paper, without the option to split-fire, you will often either find a wasted heavy bolter, or wasted lascannons, they want to do different things, but they cant.
-assault squad. Although not as bad as people say they are, still not good in units of 5. Looks into units of 7-10. Especially because they are protecting such an important character in your list.
-rhinos or DPs for your tactical marines are a must. They are survivable enough to footslog, but that is not saying that is a reason to footslog them. They are so expensive that every marine that dies (it will happen eventually) is a big loss. I find its best to take them in units of 10 with either a drop pod or rhino (playtest both. See what you like) and either flamer or melta (again playtest, but it has a lot to do with your play style and/or enemy. No heavy weapon but if I have to, I bring a missile launcher, and combat squad the heavy weapon half into ruins or something, and the other half goes with the DT to cap objectives and kill stuff.

Hope I was not toooo hard on you lol. Marines are an army that requires a very specific strategy to use well. It is worth looking around the internet and your FLGS for tips on building an army of the Imperial Fists. Something worth checking out in to future is the suplement, "the sentinels of terra", very good book, fun missions and some awesome new relics, and amazing chapter tactics, that benefit in addition to the book ones.

happy wargaming, and good luck.

-Mikey

Why bother with the Bolter on the Captain? I get it for fluff's sake, but just stick with the pistol since you'll still be able to charge.

If you are taking a relic blade, it’s not a terrible idea to keep the bolter, but you are not getting a lot of milage out of it. I like relic blades in theory a lot more then in practice. I take them (due to WYSWYG reasons) but a lot of the time I find myself needing AP2. If you want to run a jump captain, you might want to consider paired weapons to get the most out of his CC abilities. Axe/maul (or sword) or powerfist/lightning claw will let him be the blender he want to be. But he won’t be able to shoot that bolter on the turn he wants to charge, so it is just there taking up space. Bolter/relic would work better on a foot captain just hanging out with tactical marines or a command squad. But someone jetting around with the assault marines is not going to waste time in the shooting phase.

I also like a chaplain or librarian for the low cost HQ. More bang for less buck. Captains/CMs scale up well, but start poor.

IMHO go full melta or not at all for tac squads. You are dedicating the squad’s full fire for a round for one guy to try to get something done. Not optimal. When it’s the meltagunner, the sarge with a combi, and the MM guy, it’s worth it. You don’t want to have most of the guys just acting like cheerleaders. Flamers or plasma guns pair a lot better with the squad’s bolters. For what it’s worth, I like the HBs in tac squads. But then, I’m an Ultramarine at heart, so always take the special/heavy in full ten man squads.

It’s OK to mix a little bit in your dev squads, but you want to make sure everyone can harm the things you are shooting at. So you can add a few MLs to your LCs, or mix HBs and PCs, as they can still work vs. the kind of targets you want to focus on. There are very few things out there that worry about both HBs and LCs.

I like 5 man assault squads. I run mine with a vet sarge with a power sword and a pair of flamers. Larger squads have a harder time hugging cover and keeping out of LOS, so tend to get shot more.

Thank you so much for the advice and the warm welcome.

I should preface everything else I write with this... Heavy Bolters are my favorite fluff weapons, so they are locked in. I understand that they aren't the best, but it warms my heart to think about an Imperial Fists Tactical Squad pumping bolter rounds into xenos with a Heavy Bolter (I already compromised with the devastators or it would have been HBs x4 on them as well! I'll field at least one Devastator Squad x10/HB x4/DP squad before I'm done with this game!). I'm also really reluctant to field Plasma, because it seems like one of the staunchest defenders in the history of Terra wouldn't gamble with their lives when they know their aim is true with a Bolter. With that said...

From what I gather, here are the bullet points of what I should consider...

Rework my Captain's loadout (bolt pistol/dual PWs or storm bolter/PW) and reduce his point cost

Field a Chaplin instead (i'm also not keen on psykers, so libby is out! 30k is where my head is stuck, damn you HH!)

No mixed loadout on my Devastators (full lascannons, probably x2)

Pair a more intuitive weapon with my HB squads (heavy bolter, flamer, combi-flamer/PW on sarge?)

Increase the number of Assault Marines in the squad by at least a few and rework their loadout (add some flamers, maybe a combi-flamer/PW) or drop them completely and spread the points elsewhere?)

I'm new to the rules, but how does dual weapons beat out a two-hander? I've looked for it in The Rules, but I can't seem to find out exactly how many attacks you get with both loadouts, what weapons you can attack with in a single assault phase, and if when dual-wielding can you take all your attacks with one weapon, or do you need to alternate. Sorry if this is a no-brainer, but I'm assuming that he gets 3 attacks regardless of loadout, with only a single chosen weapon based on his A stat, but I don't get how that meshes with the extra attack you get from having two assault weapons. does that put it up to 4 attacks with a single weapon while DW, and just the 3 with a two-hander? And if I go with dual CC weapons, does that replace my bolt pistol so I don't get the shot in the shooting phase?

I know, nooblet, but this one has been bugging me and while I'm trying to learn everything it's hard to focus on one thing for long that's frustrating me. Better to just start learning the easy stuff and hope a vet can hash out the details in an easy to understand way.

Also, am I going to get wrecked by a flyer? I was assuming that the Lascannon Devastator Squad would be the ones trying to pick any off (after armor's taken out), but I'm not sure if that Zooming Cover Save would dick me over too much with a single shot LC. If I don't go Flakk on a ML, is there a decent option to burst something down that flies?

Also, don't Heavy Bolters and Flamers do just about the same thing? Kills lots of small/small-medium troops?

Thank you guys again and I hope to hear back from you!

 mrstimpson wrote:
Thank you so much for the advice and the warm welcome.

I should preface everything else I write with this... Heavy Bolters are my favorite fluff weapons, so they are locked in. I understand that they aren't the best, but it warms my heart to think about an Imperial Fists Tactical Squad pumping bolter rounds into xenos with a Heavy Bolter (I already compromised with the devastators or it would have been HBs x4 on them as well! I'll field at least one Devastator Squad x10/HB x4/DP squad before I'm done with this game!). I'm also really reluctant to field Plasma, because it seems like one of the staunchest defenders in the history of Terra wouldn't gamble with their lives when they know their aim is true with a Bolter. With that said...

From what I gather, here are the bullet points of what I should consider...

Rework my Captain's loadout (bolt pistol/dual PWs or storm bolter/PW) and reduce his point cost

Field a Chaplin instead (i'm also not keen on psykers, so libby is out! 30k is where my head is stuck, damn you HH!)

No mixed loadout on my Devastators (full lascannons, probably x2)

Pair a more intuitive weapon with my HB squads (heavy bolter, flamer, combi-flamer/PW on sarge?)

Increase the number of Assault Marines in the squad by at least a few and rework their loadout (add some flamers, maybe a combi-flamer/PW) or drop them completely and spread the points elsewhere?)

I'm new to the rules, but how does dual weapons beat out a two-hander? I've looked for it in The Rules, but I can't seem to find out exactly how many attacks you get with both loadouts, what weapons you can attack with in a single assault phase, and if when dual-wielding can you take all your attacks with one weapon, or do you need to alternate. Sorry if this is a no-brainer, but I'm assuming that he gets 3 attacks regardless of loadout, with only a single chosen weapon based on his A stat, but I don't get how that meshes with the extra attack you get from having two assault weapons. does that put it up to 4 attacks with a single weapon while DW, and just the 3 with a two-hander? And if I go with dual CC weapons, does that replace my bolt pistol so I don't get the shot in the shooting phase?

I know, nooblet, but this one has been bugging me and while I'm trying to learn everything it's hard to focus on one thing for long that's frustrating me. Better to just start learning the easy stuff and hope a vet can hash out the details in an easy to understand way.

Also, am I going to get wrecked by a flyer? I was assuming that the Lascannon Devastator Squad would be the ones trying to pick any off (after armor's taken out), but I'm not sure if that Zooming Cover Save would dick me over too much with a single shot LC. If I don't go Flakk on a ML, is there a decent option to burst something down that flies?

Also, don't Heavy Bolters and Flamers do just about the same thing? Kills lots of small/small-medium troops?

Thank you guys again and I hope to hear back from you!

You seem to be doing OK with the assault rules, they can be a bit of a mess. If you are duel wielding, you get the extra attack. So 4 swings, (plus one more on the charge). You need to make all the attacks in one round with the same weapon. Having different kinds gives you more options. For example, say you go axe/sword. You plow into a bunch of marines. The sword is AP3, that’s all you need to cash them in rolls, and you get to do it at I5 before them. You use the sword. Next round a terminator squad piles in to help. You switch to the axe. Sure, you strike last now, but have the AP2 to cut through their armor.

Is it worth paying the extra points for the flexibility? Often. But sometimes you just pick one and use your bolt pistol for the second weapon. You still get the extra attack for having two CCWs, you just choose to use the power sword rather then the bolt pistol for them. Specialist weapons (powerfists, lightning claws, thunder hammers, etc.) require you to have a second specialist weapon to get the extra attack, but they don’t need to be the same. So you can use the ‘fist to crack open tanks, and the lightning claw to mulch troops.

There aren’t that many two handed weapons. The relic blade is a jack of all trades one. It’s kinda OK at everything. One perk is that it only takes one weapon option, freeing up the other for a better gun, storm shield, etc. But for the most part, we don’t care about the captain’s shooting. What is one more shot? Particularly with a bolter/bolt pistol? But an extra attack in CC with his statline behind it is worth something a lot more. 40K rewards specialization. It’s better to be really good at one thing then kinda OK at a few things. You have fewer “wasted” points that way. That said, It’s good to build some flexibility and redundancy into your army; finding the right balance point is a bit tricky.

At 750, I’d not be overly worried about flyers. There are a number of options you can take to deal with them. Bringing one of your own is probably the best bet, but the stalker/hunter is not a bad option, or taking a fortification works well. Flack missiles are overpriced for what you get, only take them as a last resort. If you do take them, put them in a dev squad. Your tank hunter rule lets them actually kinda work.

HBs get a lot of flack, but are full of awesome. They might be a little overpriced and mediocre, but look cool and are fun and iconic.

Assault sarges can’t take c-flamers. I almost always run mine as a vet sarge with a power weapon, often a sword. I also like 5 man squads with 2 flamers. I did run a full 10 man squad recently, and it did work OK. Carved a 20 man blob of necron warriors off the table. 5 guys might not have been able to do that. YMMV.

 mrstimpson wrote:
Thank you so much for the advice and the warm welcome.

I should preface everything else I write with this... Heavy Bolters are my favorite fluff weapons, so they are locked in. I understand that they aren't the best, but it warms my heart to think about an Imperial Fists Tactical Squad pumping bolter rounds into xenos with a Heavy Bolter (I already compromised with the devastators or it would have been HBs x4 on them as well! I'll field at least one Devastator Squad x10/HB x4/DP squad before I'm done with this game!). I'm also really reluctant to field Plasma, because it seems like one of the staunchest defenders in the history of Terra wouldn't gamble with their lives when they know their aim is true with a Bolter. With that said...

From what I gather, here are the bullet points of what I should consider...

Rework my Captain's loadout (bolt pistol/dual PWs or storm bolter/PW) and reduce his point cost

Field a Chaplin instead (i'm also not keen on psykers, so libby is out! 30k is where my head is stuck, damn you HH!)

No mixed loadout on my Devastators (full lascannons, probably x2)

Pair a more intuitive weapon with my HB squads (heavy bolter, flamer, combi-flamer/PW on sarge?)

Increase the number of Assault Marines in the squad by at least a few and rework their loadout (add some flamers, maybe a combi-flamer/PW) or drop them completely and spread the points elsewhere?)

I'm new to the rules, but how does dual weapons beat out a two-hander? I've looked for it in The Rules, but I can't seem to find out exactly how many attacks you get with both loadouts, what weapons you can attack with in a single assault phase, and if when dual-wielding can you take all your attacks with one weapon, or do you need to alternate. Sorry if this is a no-brainer, but I'm assuming that he gets 3 attacks regardless of loadout, with only a single chosen weapon based on his A stat, but I don't get how that meshes with the extra attack you get from having two assault weapons. does that put it up to 4 attacks with a single weapon while DW, and just the 3 with a two-hander? And if I go with dual CC weapons, does that replace my bolt pistol so I don't get the shot in the shooting phase?

I know, nooblet, but this one has been bugging me and while I'm trying to learn everything it's hard to focus on one thing for long that's frustrating me. Better to just start learning the easy stuff and hope a vet can hash out the details in an easy to understand way.

Also, am I going to get wrecked by a flyer? I was assuming that the Lascannon Devastator Squad would be the ones trying to pick any off (after armor's taken out), but I'm not sure if that Zooming Cover Save would dick me over too much with a single shot LC. If I don't go Flakk on a ML, is there a decent option to burst something down that flies?

Also, don't Heavy Bolters and Flamers do just about the same thing? Kills lots of small/small-medium troops?

Thank you guys again and I hope to hear back from you!

I'm against fielding chaplains really because their not a duelist their a bruiser, if they get challenged out their almost useless unless you spend points on another close combat weapon (which raises the question why you bought him at all because he has a power maul already why isn't it good enough dang nabit!) he works best when he can cower behind a big ugly sergeant to fight for him so he can power up the squad with hatred and punch the lesser units with his crozius. And unless codex marines magically get wolf guard or deathwing Knights that just isn't happening I'm sorry. He's very much an army specific unit that you need to go out of your way to support and that makes him a bit impractical.

Stick with el capitain my man he's actually pretty awesome if you load him up right and pair him with a good team.

Heavy bolters can work in tactical squads but they need like minded kit in the squad like plasma gun and combi bolter. A unit that is going to be shooting better should at least all be able to shoot at the same thing together.

Tacticals also really shouldn't ever feature power weapons or veteran sergeants. Tactical marines operate at medium to short ranges in support of the close combat units like vanguards or bikes or terminators. They can't cc and if they try unless their up against a really lousy opponent anyway their just going to get steam rolled. Like as an example of a good matchup they cc well against guardsmen... But their horrible at everything so that's hardly a surprise there this being said since this is low points an interesting idea is having a squad with like a flamer and a power fist vet sgt follow around the assault marines and after the assaults have charged toss their hat into the ring and just dogpile the enemy under cheap ceramite. I do a similar thing using assault marines with terminators. It's cheap bodies that can toss themselves into the scrap if I want to either speed up the process or break a stalemate.

 ionusx wrote:

I'm against fielding chaplains really because their not a duelist their a bruiser, if they get challenged out their almost useless unless you spend points on another close combat weapon (which raises the question why you bought him at all because he has a power maul already why isn't it good enough dang nabit!) he works best when he can cower behind a big ugly sergeant to fight for him so he can power up the squad with hatred and punch the lesser units with his crozius. And unless codex marines magically get wolf guard or deathwing Knights that just isn't happening I'm sorry. He's very much an army specific unit that you need to go out of your way to support and that makes him a bit impractical.

Stick with el capitain my man he's actually pretty awesome if you load him up right and pair him with a good team.

Heavy bolters can work in tactical squads but they need like minded kit in the squad like plasma gun and combi bolter. A unit that is going to be shooting better should at least all be able to shoot at the same thing together.

Tacticals also really shouldn't ever feature power weapons or veteran sergeants. Tactical marines operate at medium to short ranges in support of the close combat units like vanguards or bikes or terminators. They can't cc and if they try unless their up against a really lousy opponent anyway their just going to get steam rolled. Like as an example of a good matchup they cc well against guardsmen... But their horrible at everything so that's hardly a surprise there this being said since this is low points an interesting idea is having a squad with like a flamer and a power fist vet sgt follow around the assault marines and after the assaults have charged toss their hat into the ring and just dogpile the enemy under cheap ceramite. I do a similar thing using assault marines with terminators. It's cheap bodies that can toss themselves into the scrap if I want to either speed up the process or break a stalemate.

Assault marines are a bully unit. They go find things weaker then them and take them out. Chaplains are sorta like that. As you say, they are not the best duelists. If you put him up against a well equipped CC beatstick, he’s not going to be able to win that fight. But he has enough punch to slap down any unit sergeant that he runs across. And the buff he gives to the squad really helps them out. Assault marines rely on just pouring on a ton of hits to cause wounds, so the re-roll of misses helps them out a lot. He’s a good budget option. He’s not going to be putting down chaos lords or TH/SE chapter masters, but he shouldn’t be expected to; he’s like half the points of those guys!
Power mauls are one of the better all-around weapons. Swords are better at killing MEQs, and you probably want an axe for TEQ (which assault marines should probably be avoiding) but for everything else, the maul is your go-to choice. It cashes Xenos (and other 4+ troops) in rolls, has S6 if you get stuck vs. tough things, or even trying to bonk the rear AV10 armor of tanks. Concussive is a boost that probably won’t come up, but it’s there.

On the topic of power weapons on tac sarges, I agree. Don’t. The most gear I give mine is a combi weapon to match the squad’s special. If I’m handing out melta bombs to tidy up points at the end of a list, they might get one.

I also run a imperial fist army. Two ideas I've found works really well are:
- lascannon x4 devastator squads (as mentioned earlier)
- a single heavy bolter x4 devastator squad - helps a lot with things like tau marker light squads.
Also, taking an imperial bunker (I scratch built mine) with an ammo store is a great way to get 2x devastator squads REALLY protected (AV14) and all 8 can fire out. Give it ammo stores and they re-roll 1's to hit! Awesome.

Again, thank you guys for all the responses. All this information has been really helpful in putting my limited knowledge into perspective. Here's a revised list that I think touches on most things that have been suggested, while considering that I had to neglect a couple based on point restrictions (and fluff driven stubbornness).

Imperial Fists (750)

Captain (120)
Jump Pack
Power Maul

Tactical Squad x10 (200)
Heavy Bolter
Flamer
Combi-Flamer
Rhino

Tactical Squad x10 140 (200)
Heavy Bolter
Flamer
Combi-Flamer
Rhino

Assault Squad x5 (120)
Veteran
Power Maul
Flamer x2

Devastator Squad x5 (110)
Lascannon x2

I like that the Assault Squad has a "Mini Captain" for a Sergeant, and the general buffs to the killing power my Captain/Assault Squad have received. I believe if I play very careful with them they'll do some work. I also like that the Heavy Bolter Squads received more firepower against massed targets with the Flamer/Combi-Flamer.

I'm concerned that I may not have enough kill power on really tough units, but I think that's where my Captain/Assault Squad will shine. And in all honesty I'm not really happy with only running two Lascannons on my Devastator Squad, but maybe it's all I'll need at this point level. I'm also concerned that I lost Artificers Armor on my Captain, but again, I understand I need to play very carefully with them anyways (at least until their intended target/targets are taken out).

I'm happy with this setup and I think the Flamers will be fun to paint, but I feel like I may be running too Flamer heavy? I'm pretty positive about my ability to mop up hordes and handle armor, but again, I'm not sure how well I'll handle really tough targets. Am I worried over nothing?

Thanks again everyone for all the input. I really appreciate it. What are your thoughts on this updated list and my coinciding thoughts?

I think you are a little light on the AV firepower, and getting the artificer armor back on the captain is a good idea. Where to get the points is the tough part.

I might suggest dropping one tac squad for a 5 man scout squad in a land speeder storm. This gives you some nice mobility, and saves you 100 points. Those points could be invested into a pair of LCs to bring the Devs up to 4x, and the captain’s armor.

If you dislike scouts, I might drop one of the tac squads down to 5 men for the points. I dislike doing it, but you need to shave somewhere.

Please let us know how your next game goes! I'm very interested.

Good luck!

I think that at this point level, vehicles shouldn't be too much of a problem. Your Devastators should be able to threaten higher armor, and your regular marines (all armed with a Krak Grenade attack in close combat) will be able to to pop Rear Armor.

Just wanted to update because I'm excited that I just finished my first model! Say hello to the Captain of my Imperial Fists!



In hindsight I probably should have started with some Bolter Tactical Marines... but I was so excited to put this guy together and try my hand at magnetizing!

And after some thoughts on the list, I'm probably going to reduce the number of troops on my Tactical Squads, increase the number of Devestators and Assaults, increase the number of Lascannons, add Artificer Armor, and go with the Claw/Fist Combo. I'll have less bodies on the field, but the bodies I will have will be absolute terrors!

Thanks again for all the help guys and check out my gallery if you want to see me build this army from scratch!

Basic bolter boys are one of those things you just need to buckle down and do. The fancy HQs are the ones that drive you. From a P&M standpoint, I’d recommend interspersing them into your assembly/painting schedule. Use the HQs/fancy guys as a reward for banging out 5 basic marines.

You going to start a blog over in that section of the forums? Your captain looks awesome!

That's the plan! Doing some Bolter Tacticals tonight to see how fast I can pump out non magnetized units.

So... After much consideration... This is what I'm taking up to the shop for my first games.

Imperial Fists (846/850)

Captain (165)
Jump Pack
Artificer Armor
Lightning Claw
Power Fist

Tactics Squad x6 (169) x2 (338)
Heavy Bolter
Razorback
TL Lascannon

Assault Squad x7 (169)
Veteran
Lightning Claw
Power Fist

Devastator Squad x6 (174)
Lascannon x2
Missile Launcher x2
Flakk x2

I want something as well rounded as possible, and I think this'll do it. My only concern is the lack of bodies, but the positive is that it will help me learn how to be extremely careful with a handful of elite units. How's this (obviously not 750pts!) list look? I'd like for this to be the base of my army, so upping the point size is definitely an option, because I believe the guys up at the FLGS said they'll play w/e points I want to put together.

Your assault marine sarge has a lot of gear for a 1W model. Those points could be spent elsewhere. Like getting some flamers for the squad, or combis or MBs for the tac sarges. If he’s going to be in the same squad as the captain, the odds of him getting singled out and snuffed go down, but still. I might tone him down to a power axe and a melta bomb.

Other then that, looks quite good.