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This is an 1850 ITC list I've been messing around with. First iteration had no ranged d, and instead had an aspect host of 3 fire dragons that rode in the falcons. Dropped them, because unless I was playing against knights, they never made their points back. Now It's 3 units of wraith guard. 2 units with scythes, 1 with cannon. (list edited. Would like suggestions on fitting in one more unit of five bikes)


Eldar (1850pts)
Eldar Craftworlds: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1850pts)

HQ (70pts)
Spiritseer (70pts)
Shuriken Pistol, Witchstaff

Elites (955pts)
Wraithguard (285pts)
Wave Serpent
Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers
5x Wraithcannon

Wraithguard (335pts)
Wave Serpent
Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers
5x D-scythe

Wraithguard (335pts)
Wave Serpent
Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers
5x D-scythe

Troops (355pts)
Windriders (135pts)
5x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders (135pts)
5x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders (85pts)
5x Windrider with twin-linked Shuriken catapult

Fast Attack (160pts)
Crimson Hunter (160pts)
Exarch, Two Starcannons

Lord of War (310pts)
Wraithknight (310pts)
Scatter laser, Suncannon and Scattershield

Why Falcons still since you dropped the Fragons? Wraithguard are Bulky so they can't go into the Falcons.

Falcons are surprisingly good and underrated. I imagine he uses them as a flank abuser. 9 hull points carrying 9 str 8 shots a turn (3 lances) is not to be sniffed at. if it was a single super heavy with av12 and 9 hull points and str 8 heavy 6 ap1 with str heavy 3 ap 1 lance that can deep strike without scatter you'd think it was awesome

Falcons are mediocre.
For 390 pts you can do much better.
Not killy enough and too low damage output.

WWWWWAVESERPENTS!!!!!!

Falcons are not mediocre. They are actually an alpha choice. Always have been. The only people who think this not so are nubs who've never used them and fatten their egos in forums. They are better than fire prims against everything that jinks and everything lower than av14. They are only slightly less effective (turn by turn) than crimson hunters vs ground targets and no-one ever suggests those fliers are medicorce in that role. And mathematically falcons are better than crimson hunters in ground attack role because in a 5 turn game crimson hunters are active for 3.6 turns wheras falcons are active for all 5

Are your Wraithguard footslogging? That's usually not a good thing.

Indeed, foot slogging is a slow way to die.

ConanMan wrote:
Falcons are not mediocre. They are actually an alpha choice. Always have been. The only people who think this not so are nubs who've never used them and fatten their egos in forums. They are better than fire prims against everything that jinks and everything lower than av14. They are only slightly less effective (turn by turn) than crimson hunters vs ground targets and no-one ever suggests those fliers are medicorce in that role. And mathematically falcons are better than crimson hunters in ground attack role because in a 5 turn game crimson hunters are active for 3.6 turns wheras falcons are active for all 5

Falcons are the epitome of mediocre.

Empty Falcons really don't cut it, neither do Footslogging Wraithguard. Better off with a Serpent instead of Falcons, or with Firedragons instead of Wraithguard.

Probably want Heavy Wraithcannons on the away as well, especially if you are dropping Wraithguard.

Conanman, what a stupid comment to make.

Falcons are bad. Falcons cost more then wave serpents. Falcons die faster then waveserpents. Falcons hold less then waveserpents. In 24" falcons do less damage then waveserpents. And lastly serpents are the best dedicated transport ever.

Falcons are bad. Falcons cost more then wave serpents. Falcons die faster then waveserpents. Falcons hold less then waveserpents. In 24" falcons do less damage then waveserpents. And lastly serpents are the best dedicated transport ever.

With that I would agree 100% while playing 6th ed codex. But now, is it truly that much of a difference?
Survivability difference is noticable only in some matchups, and only as long as you haven't used the shield yet.
Apart from that single turn when you fire your shield, Falcon fires better. Laser/Scatter/Shucannon in my eyes is better than TL-Scatter/Shucannon.

I'm not trying to say that Falcons are our new 6th ed Wave Serpents, but I'm sure that they are not AS bad as some people say.

Use them, and you will quickly understand why they are bad.

Falcons are good at one thing atm, delivering fire dragons.

All the games that I've been using the Falcons, they aren't bad. They always make their points back. I forgot that wraith guard are bulky. Good thing I haven't gotten in a game with the new list yet! Yea, I'll probably be switching the falcons over to serpents so that I transport the guard. Switched the list up. Removed the Falcons, added 3 wave serpents with twin linked scats/shuricannon, added a scat laser on the wraith knight, and swapped the autarch out for a spirit seer. List here, and at the top again. Thanks for the replies everyone!



Eldar (1850pts)
Eldar Craftworlds: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1850pts)

HQ (70pts)
Spiritseer (70pts)
Shuriken Pistol, Witchstaff

Elites (955pts)
Wraithguard (285pts)
Wave Serpent
Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers
5x Wraithcannon

Wraithguard (335pts)
Wave Serpent
Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers
5x D-scythe

Wraithguard (335pts)
Wave Serpent
Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers
5x D-scythe

Troops (355pts)
Windriders (135pts)
5x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders (135pts)
5x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders (85pts)
5x Windrider with twin-linked Shuriken catapult

Fast Attack (160pts)
Crimson Hunter (160pts)
Exarch, Two Starcannons

Lord of War (310pts)
Wraithknight (310pts)
Scatter laser, Suncannon and Scattershield



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'd like suggestions on fitting in five more bikes. I feel like three units just aren't enough. I don't want to go under five bikes per unit, either, mostly because I feel like it sets me up for failure if the game goes to turn seven. With five units of three, and three objectives, assuming I keep all the min units alive until turn five, I can obsec grab on turn 5 with 3. Turn 6 they die, and I can still grab two and contest one with another unit. On turn seven, I'm out of obsec, and most likely out of any other units of significance.

with a spirit seer, 3 units of guard, and a knight. you should be focusing on how to add a wraith lord to get the formation bonus.

keeping 3 man units of bikes alive is a lot easier than 5 man units for a few reasons:

smaller footprint (can hide easier),

lower target priority, 3 bikes arent as important as your knight or guard etc but 5 makes for a more enticing target,

more units let you take more objectives

either way they are going to die if shot at so you mid as well lose fewer models each time and provide more targets to shoot at and give opportunity to your opponent to make more bad decisions.

You can reserve them and keep them alive just as long but this way it gives you more of a chance to fail reserve rolls delaying your jetbikes from death.

Personally id drop 5 of them and take a wraith lord.

Ok I am angry, it shouldn't be a surprise I got a major amount of trolling. However can you back any of it up with evidence (I cited 2 specific reasons but have recieved no rebuttals) falcons are not a transport, they are a tank that CAN transport. I have used them in every build for 2 years and never once put troops in them.

They are a heavy support slot. They are therfore a tank. They are a better tank than a fire prism in almost every situation, if you do not think so get 3 use them, then apologise.

I only came on here to offer an explanation as to why he had 3 falcons in his list. Use them next game. Then you will see why I rate them so highly.

....And... for pities sake why are you comparing them to wave serpents? (And why so badly thought sheesh? !) the cheapest way to get wave serpents is to buy 65 points of dire avengers, hardly cheap. Find me a way to get 3 wave serpents onto the board for the points. Also wave serpents are NOT better tanks than falcons, wave serpents are better "anti infantry" tanks. Falcons deal in str8 wave serpents deal at str6. It's a very different thing.

I have taken 2 falcons placed them at the middle and the back and know they will land statistically damaging hits at a rate of 4 hits every turn, and for some odd reason they almost never even get shot at (one game in 7 or 8 they get shots at if there are no other targets), probably for the same reasons that you don't use them (because you can't do maths? or maybe they are not vogue? ) Anyway they are efficency wise better than crimson hunters against ground targets in a 5 turn game and better than fire prisms up to AV14.

Startling: Fact.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how small your footprint is, when you are out in the open, you are out in the open. At the end of the game, where there isn't much left alive, the difference between taking 4 wounds and losing the unit and taking 4 wounds but still having a model left is the difference between being able to still win the game and losing. After a dozen games of losing because the game went on too many turns, I've decided against minimum units of bikes for objective grabbing.

Getting the wraithlord for the formation would be good, statistically I'm only supposed to be missing half of my wraithknights attacks, but in practice I usually miss 3/4.

The Falcons are really good. Really REALLY good. They can anti tank, they can anti infantry, they deep strike WITHOUT scatter. Their only drawback is having to fire as a unit.

ConanMan wrote:
Ok I am angry, it shouldn't be a surprise I got a major amount of trolling. However can you back any of it up with evidence (I cited 2 specific reasons but have recieved no rebuttals) falcons are not a transport, they are a tank that CAN transport. I have used them in every build for 2 years and never once put troops in them.

They are a heavy support slot. They are therfore a tank. They are a better tank than a fire prism in almost every situation, if you do not think so get 3 use them, then apologise.

I only came on here to offer an explanation as to why he had 3 falcons in his list. Use them next game. Then you will see why I rate them so highly.

....And... for pities sake why are you comparing them to wave serpents? (And why so badly thought sheesh? !) the cheapest way to get wave serpents is to buy 65 points of dire avengers, hardly cheap. Find me a way to get 3 wave serpents onto the board for the points. Also wave serpents are NOT better tanks than falcons, wave serpents are better "anti infantry" tanks. Falcons deal in str8 wave serpents deal at str6. It's a very different thing.

I have taken 2 falcons placed them at the middle and the back and know they will land statistically damaging hits at a rate of 4 hits every turn, and for some odd reason they almost never even get shot at (one game in 7 or 8 they get shots at if there are no other targets), probably for the same reasons that you don't use them (because you can't do maths? or maybe they are not vogue? ) Anyway they are efficency wise better than crimson hunters against ground targets in a 5 turn game and better than fire prisms up to AV14.

Startling: Fact.

I have 4 of them, havent used them since 4th edition because they are crap.

Nobody compared them to wave serpents (are you on drugs?)

Nobody shoots them because they are crap! OH NO NOT 3 SHOTS!! RUNN RUN NOW!!! AHHH oh wait, I absolutely do not care about 3 shots at str 8.. AP2 I might add, not AP1 like you seem to think they are..

You are getting 3 str 8 shots per, there is a million things that do that better.. You could take hornets and get 2 pulse lasers each for half the price. Str 8 lance isnt that great, its good but not great. The tank has no survivability at all itle just get glanced to death by scatter laser bikes or similar.

The only thing that makes falcons viable, and put them into one of my lists (a lower tier list, for fun) was the fact that they can DS and not scatter to drop off 2 fire dragon squads and a seer council.

Repeating over and over again that they have 3 str 8 shots does not make your argument valid

Furthermore they all have to fire at the same thing, so that is 9 str 8 shots at ONE target, if it blows up on the first shot the others are completely wasted.

I am literally (yes literally) facepalming while trying to be civil towards this lunacy..

Why the suncannon on the wraithknight and not the more powerful one? (sorry cant remember what the other one is called...)

^^ also that.. i got distracted with falconboy.

Wraithcannons!

Because with ITC, they only do d2 or 2 wounds each. The suncannon blast I feel does more work than 2 shots that require both to take a tank off the table.

Not sure if it fits the same role as the Crimson Hunter, but for the exact same points, you can get 2 Hornets with Pulse Lasers.
They can Scout or Outflank with a reroll for table sides and throw down 8 x STR8, AP2 shots. I find them to be a much better option than a single Crimson Hunter. YMMV.

As far as Falcons, again, Hornets would be a better choice. Less armor, but better firepower and better options to not get shot at, unlike the Falcon.

ITC can suck it. Such a stupid rule.

@ ConanMan: the original list that was posted could take Wave Serpents as Dedicated Transports for the Wraithguard. This would negate the 65 Pt tax that you mentioned in your rebuttal.

This is why the Falcons were compared to the Wave Serpent in this list. You are correct, that they do have two different roles, but in this situation, the OP could just add 3 Wave Serpents by dropping the 3 Falcons.

Does anyone kind of like the eldar missile launcher on serpents? Ap4 blast seems useful with Decurion running around and comes with flakk right?

Most of the decurion I've seen has been running a ton of 3+ armor.

Really? I see a ton of warriors. Of course the single missile is ap3 and causes id so reduces their rp

Yea, lots of immortals in my meta.