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We have seen the kneejerk reaction of the community towards eldar players playing perfectly legal units in their codex, and we have collectively decided that it is okay to nerf codexes in certain formats as long as enough people are frothing at the mouth for it.

My question is this, if you were given the power to nerf other units or wargear that your opponents field (aside from eldar as we have already heard it) what would you pick?

I'd nerf Decurion and anything with an invuln lower than 4++. Not because it's necessarily OP or anything, but because it's boring to play against.

Btw your post is really condescending. If you want a discussion about your question you shouldn't be a jerk to people who disagree with you.

It has always been in vogue. It was the same situation back in 2nd when I started. Between 3rd and 6th edition, GW at least gave the appearance of caring about making a good game, they just stunk implementing it. The current GW is horrible at rules design and simply don't care that they are as long as you buy stuff.

To answer your question: no I would not. If I want to play my Blood Angels, I simply assume I'm going to lose from the beginning.

lustigjh wrote:
I'd nerf Decurion and anything with an invuln lower than 4++. Not because it's necessarily OP or anything, but because it's boring to play against.

Btw your post is really condescending. If you want a discussion about your question you shouldn't be a jerk to people who disagree with you.

You know even if the OP phrased this any of the possible ways,the hordes of anti eldar would arrive and be just as rude and condecending. He does have a point about army and unit shaming being to accepted of a thing in the community

Would make FNP more rare on units, or make cumulative cover saves less of a thing. 2+ cover is annoying to deal with.

 Swabby wrote:
We have seen the kneejerk reaction of the community towards eldar players playing perfectly legal units in their codex, and we have collectively decided that it is okay to nerf codexes in certain formats as long as enough people are frothing at the mouth for it.

My question is this, if you were given the power to nerf other units or wargear that your opponents field (aside from eldar as we have already heard it) what would you pick?

Well now that we have seen the powergamers attempt to deflect concerns regarding their new clearly broken troops because they want the easy wins that the poorly balanced codex-writing has given unto them and have collectively decided that it's fine that one army is in an impossibly stronger position than any other as long as enough people empty their wallet into buying themselves that free win so that they can lord it over the poor people.

My question is this, if you were given the power to buff your own models to match Eldar, what would you pick?

die toten hosen wrote:

lustigjh wrote:
I'd nerf Decurion and anything with an invuln lower than 4++. Not because it's necessarily OP or anything, but because it's boring to play against.

Btw your post is really condescending. If you want a discussion about your question you shouldn't be a jerk to people who disagree with you.

You know even if the OP phrased this any of the possible ways,the hordes of anti eldar would arrive and be just as rude and condecending. He does have a point about army and unit shaming being to accepted of a thing in the community

Would make FNP more rare on units, or make cumulative cover saves less of a thing. 2+ cover is annoying to deal with.

Even if true, that's not an excuse. You should try to be better than people like that, and not stoop to their level. A thread that starts off with a condescending post will have a bad attitude from the very start.

 ImAGeek wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

lustigjh wrote:
I'd nerf Decurion and anything with an invuln lower than 4++. Not because it's necessarily OP or anything, but because it's boring to play against.

Btw your post is really condescending. If you want a discussion about your question you shouldn't be a jerk to people who disagree with you.

You know even if the OP phrased this any of the possible ways,the hordes of anti eldar would arrive and be just as rude and condecending. He does have a point about army and unit shaming being to accepted of a thing in the community

Would make FNP more rare on units, or make cumulative cover saves less of a thing. 2+ cover is annoying to deal with.

Even if true, that's not an excuse. You should try to be better than people like that, and not stoop to their level. A thread that starts off with a condescending post will have a bad attitude from the very start.

Agreed. Two wrongs don't make a right.

It is funny, I'm so used to condescension from Necron and Eldar players I didn't even notice it.

Tigurius and Loth no longer have access to Telepathy.
Fateweaver may not use his re-roll on the Grimoire.
Only Dreadnoughts, models with Power Armour, or models with Terminator Armour may use Drop Pods.
The "I've been expecting you" rule of Coteaz confers the interceptor rule to Coteaz and any unit he has joined, this replaces the current rules of "I've been expecting you".

Picking on the Imperium because I know they'll be overlooked otherwise.

Edit:
Wow, this thread went south while I was typing this up. Guess that's to be expected.

 Purifier wrote:
My question is this, if you were given the power to buff your own models to match Eldar, what would you pick?

I'd make T Sons not awful for their cost and give CSM the same shiny toys that SM have.

I'd also like to see Wyches not die to a stiff breeze before getting to do anything. Maybe a universal 4++ and give them haywire nades again. Same with Bloodletters; for being CC oriented, they really don't stand up to CC very well.

Morality lesson aside the point stands. Unit shaming and collectivist nerfing of units is in fashion.

So, since we have already have had a field day with eldar lets treat our other opponents equally. Lets take their units that you dislike playing against off the board.

Reanimation protocol has to be the worst rule in the game for me. It just kills the fun right out of it. I would just replace the rule altogether.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Tigurius and Loth no longer have access to Telepathy.
Fateweaver may not use his re-roll on the Grimoire.
Only Dreadnoughts, models with Power Armour, or models with Terminator Armour may use Drop Pods.
The "I've been expecting you" rule of Coteaz confers the interceptor rule to Coteaz and any unit he has joined, this replaces the current rules of "I've been expecting you".

Picking on the Imperium because I know they'll be overlooked otherwise.

Edit:
Wow, this thread went south while I was typing this up. Guess that's to be expected.

I think Fateweaver's reroll should be kept for Grimoire; there just needs to be a cap on invuln saves (this is coming from someone who started with Tzeentch daemons). Perhaps Forewarning can simply be changed to say "can't be affected by any modifiers" then go up in warp charge cost to offset its immunity from invuln debuffs. I'm not sure who else uses Forewarning so I could be missing something important.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swabby wrote:
Morality lesson aside the point stands. Unit shaming and collectivist nerfing of units is in fashion.

So, since we have already have had a field day with eldar lets treat our other opponents equally. Lets take their units that you dislike playing against off the board.

Reanimation protocol has to be the worst rule in the game for me. It just kills the fun right out of it. I would just replace the rule altogether.

I hate reanimation but it shouldn't be nuked. Its previous incarnation wasn't awful because it had counters.

 Swabby wrote:
Morality lesson aside the point stands. Unit shaming and collectivist nerfing of units is in fashion.

So, since we have already have had a field day with eldar lets treat our other opponents equally. Lets take their units that you dislike playing against off the board.

Reanimation protocol has to be the worst rule in the game for me. It just kills the fun right out of it. I would just replace the rule altogether.

Alright, morality lesson aside, Reanimation protocols I actually agree with. It has the same effect as Zombies/Undead in many other boardgames. When you kill something you want to be able to say "alright, good, now let's focus on the next thing" but resurrection plops in and goes "HAHA, BY THE WAY, YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY ACHIEVE ANYTHING!"

It's why facing Resurrectionists in Malifaux takes some mental preparation to face. You have to take a few deep breaths and go "alright, killing them is something that I might do if I have to, but I have to have other main objectives."
The difference is that Malifaux is a balanced game with a lot of different ways to win a game.

I would also get rid of anything that simply happens to the enemy automatically. I don't know how many there still are, but I remember the mask of death or whatever it was that Blood Angels used to have. Because the game had started, my lord now had -1 to a load of stats. No counter play, no way to avoid it. I'm now simply weaker for the duration of the game because he threw a few points at it.

OP is clearly not willing to attempt to understand the other side of the issue when he starts off in such a rude and inflammatory manner.
Trollish post is trollish.

I'd Nerf Eldar hornets. They aren't even new eldar and still super OP.

what else needs nerf?

2++
2+Cover
Invis
FMC
lots of FW units
Grav cannons + Grav Amp
FNP ignore on ap again
multiple factions in 1 squad.

Games now fixed - carry on.

 Swabby wrote:
Morality lesson aside the point stands. Unit shaming and collectivist nerfing of units is in fashion.

In fashion? This has been going on for like, ever. Look at 4th edition Dark Angels codex. Not a very powerful codex, very weak in a lot of people's eyes and a lot of those people still needed to nerf that codex just so they can play "their" way.

 Swabby wrote:
We have seen the kneejerk reaction of the community towards eldar players playing perfectly legal units in their codex, and we have collectively decided that it is okay to nerf codexes in certain formats as long as enough people are frothing at the mouth for it.

My question is this, if you were given the power to nerf other units or wargear that your opponents field (aside from eldar as we have already heard it) what would you pick?

Ahh is someone not being allowed to auto win games..................bless...

We have already done this in our club - looked at the various codexes and seen what we can change to make the game better - not cry about not being able to use OP units and even (shock horror) agreed on both enhancements to other people's primary codex's and reductions in powers / points changes.

For example with Eldar: We changed the Wave Serpent before GW did to make them more in tune with normal units and gave Banshees the ability to assault from vehicles.

Its should never just be about "nerfing" stuff cos I can't use my super OP unit - it should be about making the game better for everyone.

 MWHistorian wrote:
OP is clearly not willing to attempt to understand the other side of the issue when he starts off in such a rude and inflammatory manner.
Trollish post is trollish.

There is nothing to understand about a mob reaction. Reasonable discourse goes out the window when threads like the eldar TFG thread in this same forum are allowed to flourish. For nearly a month I have been reading threads trashing not only the eldar codex, but eldar players themselves. I have seen eldar players morally dissected based upon their unit choices and it has gone largely unchecked.

This thread isn't trollish, it is meant to let people voice their opinions on other units they would give the recently given eldar treatment if it was socially acceptable to do so to any other codex right now. There are certainly plenty of other units that deserve said treatment.

 Swabby wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
OP is clearly not willing to attempt to understand the other side of the issue when he starts off in such a rude and inflammatory manner.
Trollish post is trollish.

There is nothing to understand about a mob reaction. Reasonable discourse goes out the window when threads like the eldar TFG thread in this same forum are allowed to flourish. For nearly a month I have been reading threads trashing not only the eldar codex, but eldar players themselves. I have seen eldar players morally dissected based upon their unit choices and it has gone laregly unchecked.

This thread isn't trollish, it is meant to let people voice their opinions on other units they would give the recently given eldar treatment if it was socially acceptable to do so to any other codex right now. There are certainly plenty of other units that deserve said treatment.

Equally we have suffered Eldar players demanding that they be able to use the units as is - screw their opponents - the sense of entitlement was very sad. Lots of just "LTP" and you are all crying etc etc etc

Perhaps if you have phrased it more like: "what units in your own Codex or another Codex would you make better and worse?" might have been more palatable and less annoying. Oh wait I did a thread like that ages ago...........

 Swabby wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
OP is clearly not willing to attempt to understand the other side of the issue when he starts off in such a rude and inflammatory manner.
Trollish post is trollish.

There is nothing to understand about a mob reaction. Reasonable discourse goes out the window when threads like the eldar TFG thread in this same forum are allowed to flourish. For nearly a month I have been reading threads trashing not only the eldar codex, but eldar players themselves. I have seen eldar players morally dissected based upon their unit choices and it has gone laregly unchecked.

This thread isn't trollish, it is meant to let people voice their opinions on other units they would give the recently given eldar treatment if it was socially acceptable to do so to any other codex right now. There are certainly plenty of other units that deserve said treatment.

You clearly have an incredibly biased view of it. But I could tell that from the first post when you came out swinging.

There have been a VERY few people bashing actual players rather than the codex, while most people have been saying things like "this actually hurts Eldar players the most." And even those people have not been allowed to "go largely unchecked." They have been contradicted and their arguments dissected at every turn. As they should be.

You're just seeing the whole conversation from your rage-narrowed vision.

There IS a topic here, folks, and any further derailments will be moderated. If you don't like how the OP is phrased...you don't actually HAVE to post in the thread. Vote with your feet.

 Swabby wrote:

My question is this, if you were given the power to nerf other units or wargear that your opponents field (aside from eldar as we have already heard it) what would you pick?

Make Wraithknights and Riptides walkers like Knight Titans.

Boom, level playing field.

 kronk wrote:


Make Wraithknights and Riptides walkers like Knight Titans.

Boom, level playing field.

I actually wish this would have been the case from the start. It would match the old lore for knights more.

 kronk wrote:

 Swabby wrote:

My question is this, if you were given the power to nerf other units or wargear that your opponents field (aside from eldar as we have already heard it) what would you pick?

Make Wraithknights and Riptides walkers like Knight Titans.

Boom, level playing field.

You forgot Dreadknights

Sure! Them too! feth those guys!

Or, better yet, just get rid of the Walker rules and make all existing walkers into MCs.

Bam! I'll start using Dreadnoughts again!